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Brexit Wars 3

lse:hsba
lse:lloy
lse:barc

#19413

JW - hi

Quite right too.
Money will go from Government to Farmers.
Instead of Government to EU to Farmers. Cutting out the ‘middleman’
JAR


#19414

Jar, but isn’t that money that was promised for the NHS…part of the so called £350m per week?

Also the money the EU currently pays to the UK farming sector isn’t to compensate them for loss of access to a key market (the EU single market). So UK taxpayers will be paying to replace EU farming subsidies until 2022 and potentially economic support because farming has lost access to the single market…don’t even mention the extra competition from North American farmers should we get a trade deal with the USA.

Tax rises or increased debt??..my bet is increased debt…or perhaps we can genetically clone a few more of the magic Brexit money tree (it just keeps on giving).


#19415

After JD’s story of kids attacking a rastafarian guitar player, here is news of the consequence of letting kids run riot:

"Peter Duncan (a 52-year-old lawyer) was attacked and stabbed to death with a screwdriver in what police said was an unprovoked chance “coming together” (outside a branch of Greggs) with a group of youths near Old Eldon Square in Newcastle.

He was attacked at about 18:20 BST on Wednesday and died later in hospital.

Seven teenage boys have been arrested on suspicion of his murder. The boys, a 14 year-old, two 15-year-olds and four 17-year-olds, remain in custody."


#19416

Wagner had a flawed character. When he was young and unknown he praised Meyerbeer, who was the star of operetta composers. Wagner wrote sycophantic letters to him. Later he published that essay about the Jew in the music that was aimed at Meyerbeer without spelling his name and denied any true emotion or depth to Jewish composers. Perhaps the motivation was more his own envy and hybris than true antisemitism, but definitely not the behaviour of a good character.

Many geniuses had flawed characters. Perhaps you can only achieve great things with some amount of selfishness, although persons like Felix Mendelssohn gave much better examples.

Notwithstanding Trump has a flawed character without the excuse of being a genius, not even average education.


#19417

Is the money spared from EU membership fees then not going to the NHS?


#19418

Wrong calculation. The farmers will lose both EU subsidies and income from exports. It’s easy to conclude that the government will have to spend more than it gave to the EU. There is still the little detail what to do with their output that cannot be sold as consumers switch to imported products?


#19419

Exactly Oily.
All these bungs to various parties, promises of assistance in the event of Brexit issues let alone the giant cost of Brexit preparations are coming from UK taxpayers. Where is the accounting for all this? Where is the ‘Brexit Bill’ ?

What was touted as a money saver is in fact a huge cost to the UK… not just as a one-off but ongoing until… some deal is signed with the EU.
And chances of that deal being better than we have today are zero.

Brexit is bad for the UK as well as an enormous waste of time and money.


#19420

Tory MP Guto Bebb has said that he would support an interim Corbyn- led government as it would be short term and better than a generational crash out Brexit. I think he is right. He should get kicked out of the Tory party for this but with a majority of only one???

Likewise Kenneth Clarke has intimated that he might be prepared to lead an interim unity government. Another one for the chop?

Elements in Phillip Hamond’s constituency party have been telling him to shut up or face a vote of no confidence? Maybe another one for the chop?

And then we have Gauke, Stewart and the rest. Brexit Wars is truly engaged and the Tory Brexiters are trying to re-enact the role of the yeoman cavalry at the Massacre of Peterloo in another battle against democracy.

Whether there is any serious chance of defeating Johnson’s administration in a vote of confidence and installing a government of national unity I am not sure. If so, I would prefer for Clarke to be PM with Harman as Deputy. It needs to be someone who doesn’t have ambitions to be a substantive PM. The interim government needs to be short-term with a simple programme of arranging a second referendum with a choice between “No Deal”, “May’s Deal (or tweaked version of)” and “Remain” with voting on a single transferable basis. Other than that, the interim government would need to mind the shop and then, once the people have decided arrange an election to restore normal government.

To what extent normal government will be possible after Brexit is resolved one way or another is doubtful. Feelings of bitterness and betrayal will persist for decades most likely.

Any views?

Frog in a tree


#19421

Brexit… a danger to our Security too. Just an expert on the subject talking though… so Brexiteers can ignore it as he must be lying.

John - Pasted all of it for you this time rather than just first paragraph so you don’t have to worry about links.

"
No amount of preparation can mitigate the security threat of a no-deal Brexit, according to Scotland Yard’s top counterterror official.

“There are lots of things we can do but they are no way near as good the systems that were developed,” Scotland Yard Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu told the Guardian, referring to the EU’s crime-fighting apparatus.

If the U.K. tumbles out of the EU without a divorce agreement, it could lose priority access to security and border management intelligence through the Schengen Information System II database, as well as passenger name records and European Arrest Warrants.

“We have done a lot of contingency planning to put things in place. But there are some things you can’t put in place. So there is no contingency planning for not being given passenger name records," Basu said. “It would create an immediate risk that people could come to this country who were serious offenders, either wanted or still serial and serious offenders committing crimes in this country, and we would not know about it."

He added: "There would be some damage to our safety. I can’t put a scale on that.”

If Britain leaves the bloc without a deal, it could take years for suspects to be returned under the 1957 European convention on extradition, in contrast with the six weeks it takes using a European Arrest Warrant.
"

source: https://www.politico.eu/article/counter-terror-chief-uk-less-safe-under-no-deal-brexit/


#19422

Another Far Right, Brexit supporting nutter on the streets…


#19423

There could be quite a few Labour MP’s who would vote for BoJo in a ‘No confidence’ vote because they want Brexit at any cost (to get it ‘finished’). So a ‘No confidence’ vote is hard to call (IMO).

The likelihood of a ‘Unity’ government is also less than certain…especially if Corbyn insists that he must be PM.


#19424

Yes, I was surprised by the instant response from Jo Swinson… seems strange to write it off with just a few weeks remaining and few opportunities to do something about it.
Not that I believe for one moment that we will be leaving EU at end of October.


#19425

They are liars. There is no way HMG can support this industry into profitability in the face of it not being able to sell its wares for more than a few months. The Government’s stated intention is to end area payments in 5 years time. The situation is that none of these agri businesses can plan ahead. Not that I have overwhelming sympathy for the multi - millionaire arable farmers I know.

IMHO,

SBK


#19426

That is exactly correct arsanias. Wagner was keen on incest too but none of his flaws detract from the greatness of his music.

There are shedloads of artists in all categories who were/are mad, bad and dangerous to know. Politicians such as Trump are just bad and produce nothing that is good or will last.

IMHO,

SBK


#19427

ask again its the Exports to the EU that will hurt £285Bill to countries near and same economies so

what Will the US India China BUY from UK… and if those exports are affected that 100s of thousands of jobs and many industries.

Dont think BOJOs money tree is big enough…


#19428

The evil which comes with being Brexiteers arises from their unreasoned hatred of people and things they don’t understand. In your case the stated hatred you have for the EU.

IMHO,

SBK


#19429

Uncultured yobbo.

You wouldn’t wan to go to my local Tescos that’s for sure. And I doubt that there is a German of any kind there.

IMHO,

SBK


#19430

There is probably no limit to the size of BoJo’s magic Brexit money tree…because it’s imaginary and I suspect that BoJo has an overactive imagination. So already it must be the biggest tree ever to ‘exist’ and it’s growing by the day/hour. The problem for taxpayers and UK business is that when project Fantasy eventually meets project Reality somebody is going to have to pay the bill.

‘Clever’ people with sufficient resources will relocate to low tax regions and let UK ‘little’ people pay for all the Brexiteer hubris.


#19431

Or… all the uncertainty could be fantastic for the UK…as Peter Hargreaves said in May 2016:

"
“It would be the biggest stimulus to get our butts in gear that we have ever had,” Peter Hargreaves said. “It will be like Dunkirk again,” he added, comparing Brexit to the British military’s forced evacuation from Europe after France fell to the Nazis.
"
and
"
“It (Singapore) was a mosquito-infested swamp with no natural resources,” he said. “All they had were people with brains and hands and they turned into it the greatest economy in the world. I believe that will happen to us, too.”
"

All total bollocks of course but I guess that a multi-millionaire can afford some uncertainty… I’m sure he and his family will be OK no matter what so his words are cheap.

source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/12/billionaire-brexit-donor-leaving-eu-like-dunkirk


#19432

Here is a good twitter character:

https://twitter.com/OldBobCyprus

IMHO,

SBK