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Brexit Wars 3

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#23090

Spot on @arsanias

This board is populated by a number of people who take everything at face value and believe implicitly their own Government’s responses and Media.
Thickos can be Remainers as well as Leavers… the likes of Oily and John are good examples.

The current narrative is to feel sorry for the Kurds… and because ‘they did most to defeat ISIS’… yet it isn’t true. The Syrian Army has… and continues… to wipe out ISIS in their own country. It is they who have been dismantling ISIS… yet when they carry on do that like in Idlib… the hollow cries that they are bombing civilians and using chemicals is heard
Meanwhile, the Western Media are unhappy that the invading US forces in Syria … uninvited and unwelcome… in a sovereign, democratic country… are now… supposedly… pulling out… immediately followed by the largest land grab in recent years by an invading force. Yet in our Press… it’s all about the Kurds… yet Turkey is invading and taking over a large strip of Northern Syria.

Then we have Israel… continuing to illegally build estates on land that isn’t theirs… and the response from Western Governments… nothing… except continue to support them.


#23091

Everybody has the right to campaign for reversing whatever democratic result as long as that campaign itself remains democratic. If you criticize that you again demonstrate a lack of understanding of democratic principles.

And I must say that unlike brexit supporting wealthy people, Soros is open and honest about his motivation. The question is still why you pick him and not other donators?

And then we have Farage regurgitating a well known conspiracy theory about replacing white Europeans with refugees by saying Soros sought “to undermine democracy and to fundamentally change the makeup, demographically, of the whole European continent”

It’s all from the same dirty corner.


#23092

In TV and for how long? What I’m talking about is the passion of people and their beliefs. You don’t find that and the current discussion is a good example. When it’s Israel it’s becoming personal and everybody has an opinion. It’s obsessive.

Even the connection between a Jew and Israel is already misled. Can the guy not simply be Hungarian?


#23093

Arsanias, but you brought this subject up!!!

It’s ‘almost’ like people who disagree with you on this subject are somehow anti-Israel & anti-Jewish…it simply isn’t so. I just disagree with you on this one topic.

Indeed Jar has clarified his viewpoint on Israel & it’s people…but will that be good enough?!

Perhaps you’ve formed your opinion and nothing he says or does will change that. Perhaps that would be a sign of the very intolerance you object to in others. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

He’s Hungarian-American (by Citizenship).


#23095

it may be of interest for some of you to read this about Soros and anti-semitism:

Personally, I agree that JAR did not use anti-semitic terminology and for that reason I didn’t join Arsanias in flagging JAR’s post. I did think, though, that he was doing one of his usual wind-ups.

JAR says he supports the state of Israel and is not anti-semitic and I have no reason to disbelieve him. It is a common position on the RW of politics as we see with The Groper.

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#23096

plays the race game whenever it suits…


#23097

Pete, listening to snippet of the LBC conversation with Farage responding to a caller, it doesn’t appear that he said what the headline infers:

‘Jews Should Concern Americans More Than Russian Influence, Nigel Farage Says’ [Newsweek Headline]

What he seems to have said (according to the article & contained video clip) is:

"He turned the conversation to Jewish lobbies after a caller had suggested the pro-Israel lobby was as dangerous to the U.S. as the Kremlin.

That’s a reasonable point,” Farage told the caller.

There are about 6 million Jewish people living in America, so as a percentage it’s quite small, but in terms of influence it’s quite big.”

There are other very powerful lobbies in the United States of America, and the Jewish lobby, with its links with the Israeli government, is one of those strong voices," Farage said on his London-based radio show.

[https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-jewish-farage-brexit-698486]


#23098

Farage has had a “real” job by the way. He was a commodities trader… like his brother who was a broker on LME… and his father was a stockbroker. Only for a few years though… about a decade.
His EU MEP salary and pension have served him well.


#23099

In the interests of fairness I have to admit I didn’t know the context, didn’t know (or care) that Soros is Jewish and might easily have made the same mistake as @john.a.reeves criticising a Leave financial backer (I know nothing about their race, creed or religion, some of them may be Jews for all I know. Or even Welsh!).

So while I commend your sensitivity to anti-semitism (a phrase I hate as Arabs are semites too, yet Israelis themselves are the masters of changing language meaning for propaganda) I’m quite prepared to give Mr. Reeves a pass on this one. (And on his reference to diversity at his local Conservative party, clumsy though it may have been, @J_Westlock)

I thought the picture you posted of Soros being manipulated like a puppet in obvious imitation of Nazi propaganda was awful and you were right to bring it to our attention.

It is that kind of post that gets delivered on social media to individuals deemed to be in sympathy as adverts but used to appear to be mainstream posts. They then spread the message or feel it is acceptable. This is how modern activist groups work with such agendas and social media is still trying to catch up and banish the practice. A practice which is a great threat to democracy and peace generally.

@john.a.reeves may have been taken in by such a post if he uses social media, but I don’t believe he had any intention of trying to further any agenda by his mention of Soros. Why would he post here if he did? He knows half of us ignore his posts and he isn’t going to change the minds of any of the dozen or so regular posters on this thread. I doubt too many people besides those posters read the thread.

I think I’ve mentioned before that I have been the victim of pro-Israeli hate campaigns because I posted a book review using the word holocaust about WWII without capitalising it. I’ve also been the victim of a similar campaign by a German neo-nazi group for a book review I wrote about Guy Gibson’s autobiography. It isn’t pleasant. Let’s not be taking sides here with either such extreme groups, I say.

You’ve made your point, again, why not move on? Its a Brexit thread which is controversial enough without bringing up Israel and justifying their wrongs by listing those of other countries.

Start a new thread perhaps. I can tell you about my part-Jewish descended uncle who ran from a building under attack by Israeli terrorists wearing British army uniforms and was waved aside by a crew manning a machine gun as he exited the building … and then cut his best friend in half as he came out behind him. “I don’t know to this day why they didn’t shoot me”, he said. I suppose the fact he looked more like a Jewish stereotype than most Jews just never occurred to him.


#23100

No sense of humour these fascist types:

Snigger.

IMHO,

SBK


#23101

Usually in the circles where they pass those stories about Soros around they know he is jewish and JAR knows it too, because we talked about it already in February in this thread.

Actually, he is portrayed as the puppet master that controls the politician. That is a standard topic of Nazi propaganda of the Jewish world conspiracy that tries to control everything through their proxies in politics, economy and culture and acts against “the people”. So, action against Jews was “defense” of the people vs. the elite. We know that.

With his spelling of "the Guardian / ‘Soros Central’ " he reiterates that topic that there is a jewish controlled or influenced “central”. What is a “central”? It’s a small group per definition, not the mainstream. So, he doesn’t acknowledge that what the Guardian or Soros stand for are mainstream. It must be somehow prompted by a small group with an agenda. Who? The “elite”? The elite of which a wealthy Jew is part of?

Very well known propaganda.

I think he might be dumb enough to just regurgitate what goes around in those echo chambers. You see a lot of that crap there and he might not even notice that he is being fooled and abused.

I just don’t think Brexiteers should sink so low to become related to the extreme right/antisemitic circles. They should rather realize that their beloved project is just another vehicle of the extreme right to poison the minds of people. It’s like a Trojan horse. With Brexit they reach out to an audience that is not originally close to their ideology. Is there any far-right / neoazi group that does not applaud to Brexit?


#23102

Not to my knowledge. Which was the main argument I vocalised for voting against Brexit pre Referendum, that a vote for Brexit would be voting alongside Nazis. Unfortunately, many normal voters accused me of Project Fear or over-stating the threat.

Now we hear that right wing extreme terrorists are the biggest threat to the country, hate crimes have been rising and hate speech is reported daily, often from our own government.


#23103

Arsanias - hi
In a Brexit loathing ‘echo chamber’ where the ‘accepted ‘ view against ‘Brexiteers’ is almost universally prejudiced, ill-informed,myopic and self-justifying . This is a classic m8.
I woul say that someone would have to pull out all the stops to beat this post for its level of sanctimonious rubbish.
JAR


#23104

There was always the danger that Brexit would open Pandora’s box…indeed there has been a documented increase in hate & racist crimes since the referendum. The real issue is that the ‘leadership’ of the Brexit party & probably also the Tories are inciting these ‘people’ with rhetoric about ‘people versus the establishment elite’ & ‘Surrender Acts’…it is very dangerous, inflammatory language designed to divide & stoke up hatred. The lowest of the low from people who should be providing leadership & setting examples…but I suspect they have no moral compass.


#23105

Indeed. I expected it from the Brexit party, but not from the Tories. It is a measure of how far we have fallen.


#23106

You wonder why people think that many Brexiters are RW racists nuts?

What groups do you think are targeted by the LEAVE campaign??


image


#23107

WTO Chief Says No Exceptions for UK-EU Trade in Hard Brexit
By David Verbeek
12 October 2019, 16:19 BST

AND

remember the Brexit roar the Dyson was going to make electric cars and all the design jobs they were going to produce in the UK…
just or BULL

Dyson has scrapped its electric car project


#23108

Last one Played golf with a swede and Dutch guy yesterday and they think weve gone nuts

No-deal Brexit will hit leave-voting areas hardest, says report
A leaked government document shows that 29 out of 33 areas that will be worst hit by job losses backed Brexit
Caroline Wheeler, Rosamund Urwin and Tom Calver
October 13 2019, 12:01am,
The Sunday Times

Salisbury, Sunderland and Carlisle are among the English cities where jobs would be worst hit in the event of a no-deal Brexit, according to a secret government list leaked to The Sunday Times.
The document, marked “official sensitive” — requiring security clearance on a “need to know” basis — reveals that 29 of the 33 areas most vulnerable to job losses if the UK crashes out of the European Union voted leave.


#23109

Hi Pete,

That could be significant if there is a second referendum. No doubt many our well-heeled Brexiters like JAR will denounce it as Project Fear but at some point with the voting public the penny will drop.

Frog in a tree


#23110

That’s another positive for Leaving the EU Pete imho

Ps is this related to Cameron telling us Turkey will be welcomed in the EU ?