Brexit Wars 3




I sincerely hope it’s “electioneering” from Swinson. But there’a always the risk of it back-firing if it goes too far. Especially with any repeated, personalised strong rhetoric. Sometimes there’s just no undoing the rifts created. As we may agree, Brexit is too important for that. It’d be quite different if it was an ordinary GE. This one is far from that.

Let’s not take things too literally. For example, Nicholas Soames, MP, presumably a highly educated man, recently used the same term with reference to the Tory Chief Whip. I believe that’s a certain Mark Spencer, MP. I likewise used it irrespective of Swinson’s gender. But in view of my respect for all creatures, including domestic farm animals (hence I don’t eat them), perhaps “bovine” wasn’t the best adjective to use. - GL.

“A really stupid, bovine thing to do’: Tory MP condemns removal of whip from Michael Heseltine”.


A perfectly correct analysis of the situation at the time.

  • Corbyn didn’t have the number of MP’s he would have needed to be leader of a Unity government
  • Neither Corbyn nor BoJo are PM material…and the country does deserve better.

Nothing in what she said was controversial (IMO)…just the truth.


Hopefully I didn’t accuse JD of hating women…if it did come across that way then I apologise, of course.

I was trying to find out why JD dislikes Swinson so much…I was just wondering if her being a woman was part of the reason. I have thought it several times because each time he mentions Swinson he is quite negative about her…whilst other politicians (say Nick Clegg) get an easier ride. It has been in my mind for quite a while and today I rather clumsily put that question to him.

Personally I think Swinson is doing as good as she can to stop Brexit (which is all I can ask) and ‘perhaps’ is being used as a scapegoat to deflect attention away from other ‘Players’ who deserve more criticism (because they have more power)…the fact that she is a woman is ‘probably’ neither here nor there…she certainly ain’t bovine (IMO) but she may be a cow (I don’t know her personally). :wink:


She didn’t explain WHY they were “unfit” to be Prime Minister… and more to the point why she thinks that she is.


In that case I apologise unreservedly for any offense caused. I do hope you continue to contribute - when time allows - because your contributions are always insightful & worth reading (even when I don’t always agree with them :wink:)



Thanks. I don’t tolerate any form of sexism in my life. Hence some perceived ambiguity here about an issue I consider to be important, which touched a raw nerve. To be clear, no male chauvinists abided here. This confused matter is now over & history as far as I’m concerned.

Also an apology from me for any slight caused to anyone here.

FWIW, there are probably as many women politicians I admire as there are men, though admittedly not many of either gender from the current lot. I’d only make an exception with the late Tony Benn, who stood out for me as a political giant. But I’ve previously said that I’d certainly welcome the very capable Yvette Cooper as Labour leader, no less than Hilary Benn or Keir Starmer.

I’ve certainly previously criticised Clegg quite harshly & fairly often whenever I spoke about the late Lib Dem leader, Charles Kennedy, which was the last time I voted Lib Dems. I agree with JW that Swinson may not last as long as some of her more ardent supporters wish to think.

The way to stop Brexit is to form close political alliances. That takes compromise on all sides, including from both Labour & Lib Dems. - GL.


Quite… and NOT to engage in gutter politics trying to discredit individuals simply to get soundbites and airtime. Would be better if they tried to rise above that and discuss policies.


FIAT - hi

Maybe they could spot a hard-left, terrorist-supporting, pacifist, unpatriotic, tolerator of anti-semitism when they saw one?


Total prat.


JW - hi

I’m surprised you think that of Corbyn!
I thought you were a great supporter of him



It is very clear that you are a supporter of the racist and islamophobic Johnson…



Are you saying that you have given all your money to climate change research? You put your house in order already? I gave up car ownership 22 years ago, as one example. What have you done?


But still jetting off between uk and Poland regularly?




We’ll be hearing next that it’s OK because he carbon offset it with his solar funds…


Why are you repeating exactly what I said?


His first big failing was to decide to support Remain when everyone knew he didn’t. I still don’t really understand what corner he believed he was in to do that. I agree, when it came to the big issue he was found wanting in personal integrity when he started playing politics with an open vote.

The anti-semitism thing. I’ve never bought it personally.


It smacked of the hubris of someone who has started to believe a political miracle might be about to happen. No chance in our parliamentary system. There is EVERY chance she’ll have to make a coalition with one of those two leaders, so where does she stand politically at that point after THAT statement.

If politics is anything it is the art of keeping your options open in the future in order to be able to press your own views and policy preferences. Swinson showed herself to have not grasped that fundamental it seems to me … or more likely lost it in the heat of the moment (and limelight) which in itself shows she is unfit to be P.M. herself.

All of British politics is about building a consensus and compromise, even within a cabinet with a working majority.

Imagine if the election leaves the Tories as the largest party but no majority and Swinson has excluded herself from a coalition with Labour. She’s playing politics with the country’s future, it seems to me, and that is as bad as the approaches from Johnson, May and Cameron that led to the whole Brexit mess in the first place.


I guarantee you it wont be. It will be dragged up every PMQs when the opposition leader will accuse whoever it is as P.M. that they are held in power only by a party who holds them personally in contempt.

NOTHING said (or tweeted or posted) in politics is EVER forgotten these days. Her statement was crass in the circumstances as I have said in other responses. As was her ill-judged (in my opinion) rush to bring on an election.


Besides Winston Churchill, can you think of any others who didn’t? Some real heavyweights tried to start the SDP and look what happened to them.

The individual has to be remarkable in our system if they are to survive swapping horses midstream - even more so if they try to start a new party or stand as an independent. Building up a whole new grassroots support system for a new party, or beating the existing ones in your constituency as an independent, is no simple task.


I expect such an answer would go on for several hours…

I’ll probably be voting for her party, by the way.