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lse:lloy

#3603

You keep going on about the 90/180 day rule applying in the UK. I have not found anything on-line about this. Could you provide me with a link to the relevant HMG immigration site where this is covered? All I can find is the 6 month duration for visa and visa-exempt entry.

With regard to tax residence, I believe you have to be in the UK for more than 182 days per tax year to be taxed on worldwide income. Being non-resident for tax purposes only exempts you from income tax on foreign earnings, UK earnings are taxed normally. This issue is normally dealt with once a year, i.e. when you submit your tax return.

I used to use the similar rules applicable in the 1990’s and tracked my movements via a spreadsheet to avoid falling foul of the rules by being in the UK to often or for too long. I had to submit a list of my trips a couple of times to HMRC when they asked for proof that I had complied with the rules. I found my initial submission led me to fall foul of the rules, and had to pay extra tax, since I had not counted the days correctly, but once this was corrected I had no further problems with further submissions. I always made sure I had sufficient margin to take care of unexpected delays etc.

With respect to stamping of passports, I think that this is slightly superfluous, since I believe that the details are logged electronically at the UK port of entry passport checks. Thailand stamps passports on entry and exit, however it also appears that the details are logged electronically. My partner, who has dual Swiss/Thai nationality, recently had to renew her Thai passport. She has used her Swiss passport for our trips to Thailand so has never actually presented her Thai passport at Thai immigration. The Embassy staff here in London who processed her renewal application could see that she had not used it on their computer system, and advised her in future to always use her Thai passport to enter Thailand.

In addition we have gone through the extremely simple system of the UK’s EU Settlement Scheme to obtain her settled status here. This does not involve any stamps or entries in her passport, so the only way for the immigration controls to know she has settled status is through their electronic system which is accessed automatically at the relevant passport checks on exit and re-entry. She is allowed to stay outside of the UK for up to four years (continuous absence) before losing her settled status.

The rights of UK citizens in EU/EEA countries is up to the country concerned, not the UK. If the EU/EEA countries continue to be, or turn, vindictive against the UK, there is virtually nothing that the UK government can do. This would result in EU/EEA citizens having more rights than UK citizens. Should the EU/EEA not implement the same form of visa-exempt travelling for tourists from the UK, then I suspect that they will find that UK tourists will find better places to travel to.


#3604

I haven’t actually, I’ve gone on about it applying in Poland.

The 90 day return rule is different to the 90/180 day rule.


#3605

I guess this is just one of the many advantages of Leaving the EU… being forced to find “better” places to travel to.
One to add to the list right next to taking back control.


#3606

In the UK they don’t check your passport when you leave … unless they are relying on the airline/ferry company to pass on the info.

If so, why do other countries check your passport when you leave, I wonder? I mean check its a valid document and scan it, not stamp it.

If you read my recent post, I checked this very carefully when I exited the UK a couple of weeks ago, purposely NOT handing over my passport with my boarding card to the one check that there is Uk side.

Also, I read an interesting article that i posted somewhere on these boards as to why the Uk has wildly incorrect numbers for students over-staying their visas. I don’t know where they got the information from, but it was stated that no one leaving after 10pm had a passport check (to india specifically) and so they were never ‘checked out’ of the UK under those circumstances.

So, I think you might be assuming too much about the electronic record. The government admitted there were no exit checks a few years ago and I’ve seen no changes personally.


#3607

used to travel to US every winter but stopped when they voted of the racist yellow crook in the Whitehouse…
The ESTA system was a mess OK if it all went ok but any slight error and a oops
The cost of immigration control where many were interviewed for hours even with an ESTA must be enormous

Just reading about the impeachment and am thinking Trump probably didn’t think theres anything wrong in threatening to withhold aid in return for Ukraine dishing dirt on BIDEN.
Its the kind of thing he did all his business ife…


#3608

You are correct… that is exactly what happens as we’ve discussed before. Couriers/airlines are obliged to send that data to the Border Control… and the quality of the data is far from 100% correct.

I expect that in another decade the electronic systems around the world will simply cease dealing in “stamping” and “attaching”… can’t come soon enough.

Sadly some dotards want to restrict the accessibility of the EU for the UK citizen… I suspect they don’t get out much so it won’t matter to them but just another example of the Brexiteer selfish behaviour.


#3609

Sure… he’s a racist thug.

Whereas our last two Tory leaders (May and Johnson) have merely conspired to stop any proper investigation or justice for those children and adults murdered in cold blood by British troops.

Take your pick who are the larger monsters.


#3610

So what happens if you drive over the border into Eire?


#3611

Nothing at the moment.

I’m sure that the new Brexiteer high technology solutions will soon be in place though ensuring we have a hard border.


#3612

Typical Remainer rant, without actually looking at the facts. It is not the UK that would impose any restrictions, it is the Countries being visited that are doing it. All they need to do is allow visa-exempt travel for UK tourists and business people and there would be no change from the current situation (for tourists at least). Again, how these countries deal with UK citizens who wish to reside in their Country is up to them. It has litlle or nothing to do with HMG.


#3613

It is simply an inevitable, obvious and entirely predicted consequence of Leaving the EU.
Those responsible are the ignorant, xenophobic dotards who voted for Brexit.


#3614

You probably have caught me there. I have travelled a lot (I used to average over 100 flights per year) and now virtually turn off when I enter an airport. I also cannot really remember when and where I have been checked flying outside of the EU (obviously there are virtually no checks when flying/travelling within the EU).

The provision of API covers most aspects, and I am sure that should Border Control find that the data are consistently incorrect then the Airline (or similar entity responsible for providing the information) would suffer some form of sanction.


#3615

Clap trap! Penalising the UK is not an inevitable consequence, it only comes about via the pettymindedness of arrogant EU bureaucrats.

Currently the relevant HMG webpage states that

If you’re a tourist, you will not need a visa for short trips to EU countries, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. You’ll be able to stay for up to 90 days in any 180-day period.

You may need a visa or permit to stay for longer, to work or study, or for business travel.

The first paragraph appears to be definitive (i.e. says “will not”) whereas the second is provisional (i.e. sayas “may need”).


#3616

Eh?
Are you really suggesting we weren’t warned that there would be separate queueing lanes, increased immigration checks at EU borders causing delays at airports and ports and an end to the UK’s use of the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC)?

Leaving the EU was always going to be a tortuous and difficult negotiation that is still many years from being resolved.
It was obvious to anyone with any brain cells that it would leave UK citizens worse off when it came to travelling to EU states.

That’s what Brexit means.
Brexit means Brexit.


#3617

It seems to me that “will not” simply reflects the agreements currently in place with those countries. Once we are out of the EU then the current agreements with the EU will be null and void until new agreements are agreed.

Regarding the pettymindedness of arogant (sic) EU bureaucrats, that is really a very silly statement. The Brexiters hold the prize for “cake and eat it” arrogance in my view.

Frog in a tree


#3618

I do find it amusing how the Brexiteers now crow that it’s the EU that have inflicted it on us… yet it’s people like @Bowman who have done this.


#3619

It is around 90% accurate supposedly… at least among the methods where it is designed to operate.
The issue with any such system is with ‘Government’ systems then matching individual travel movements to data held on immigration or visa systems. There are numerous ways that you can end up with false-positive unrecorded departures (eg. joint nationality passport holders entering and leaving using different passports, people getting a visa but then not traveling).
It’s a non-trivial, high volume litter of old systems that are being interlinked where you are always going to have a portion of the data that shows discrepancies that may or may not reflect reality.


#3620

Previously in this thread, after constant incorrect statements made that the UK didn’t have control over immigration due to the EU, I made the point that there are as many passport checks leaving Poland as there are entering Poland (you couldn’t miss it even if turned off on your travels).

I thought the airport I use had just one check before security and getting air side. Like I said I specifically watched the procedure this time and didn’t hand my passport over at the check point. My boarding pass only was scanned. Same in security, boarding pass checked, passport remained firmly in my pocket (most people hand over both together, unsure what is being checked).

I tried to board the plane without showing my passport but in the queue at the gate (not at the gate desk) it was examined and my boarding card initialled. At the gate desk my boarding card only was examined for the initialled check. It wasn’t scanned (not 100% on that last bit, I need to watch out for that next time, she may have had a hand scanner in the queue). My boarding card scanned at the gate desk.

My passport certainly was not checked for document authenticity using ultra violet light etc as you see when coming into the UK.

This in sharp contrast to Poland so not correct to say hardly any checks when flying within the EU. Passport control after security and before boarding is a mirror image of immigration passport control on entry, with several border control staff behind desks, queues for EU, non-Eu passports, passport scans, checks with magnifying devices, asked to remove glasses for photo check on occasion etc. Even asked destination last time even though they had asked for my boarding card also, they’re checking what you sound like and it matches the passport info I assume.

The only conclusion I can come to is that at best the UK is requiring an Hungarian airline to collect info as opposed to in Poland where officials do a stringent job of policing their end instead of leaving immigration control at the other end to find any forged documents etc.

In other words, the UK is STILL guilty of not implementing checks and tracking numbers in and out or bothering about who is leaving the country (despite a police post being there who do nothing but stare at everyone).

There was a flight leaving the EU and passengers from that flight going through at the same time as I, by the way. There was no different set up for them.


#3621

Absolutely correct.
The UK is still not tracking either numbers or individuals in the way most people think they are.
If the Police need to research an individual’s movements then they can usually piece it together… but it’s not like in the movies where that data is instantly accessible.

Similarly, the systems we’re talking about are NOT designed to provide data on Immigration or Emmigration. At best they provide data on the high volumes of people entering and leaving the country but they say very little about the intention of those who either intend to remain in UK for long periods… or those who want to leave for long periods.
Which is why the Passenger Survey still provides most of that data.

Amazingly, the UK has little clue on how much real Immigration there is.

The UK system is designed around saving costs and form over content.


#3622

The webpage I referred to is for “Visit Europe after Brexit”, which in my mind means the future rules not what we currently have.