I am not a Corbyn supporter but arguably he would be less damaging to the nation’s prospects than the current disunited shower, especially if he backed a referendum and then Remain.



You really can’t believe that Frog.

That he would be better, wants a referendum or remain.

I’ve never thought of you as disingenuous, other things yes, but I suppose we live and learn.


No, but it’s an end of “de facto national elections of second rank”


FIAT, thanks for explaining where DP got that eye-watering 5-7% growth rate…I expect it’s that ‘economist’ Professor Minford (nutter IMO) with his unilateral zero import tariffs creating a survival of the fittest economy. I doubt there are many Leave voters would be aware of the impact of such a cavalier economic policy (favoured by Rees-Mogg I expect :face_with_monocle:)



These are the proponents of the Singapore model. Low regulation, low tax, minimal public services, reduced human rights. Absolutely the thinking that brought us the under-regulated banking system in the run-up to 2008/9. Adam Smith Institute is Thatcherism on steroids.


Frog in a tree


I’ll take them off my Christmas card list :face_with_monocle:


So progress,

We’ve agreed democracy will enhanced by Brexit.

And Frog, thank you, has proved it’s possible to have an economic model for super growth. So, it appears we can put the growth argument behind us.

It is possible to achieve “eye watering” growth outside of the EU. The Singapore Miracle.

Blessed be the :frog:

My only concern is Frog’s comment about human rights? I hope that’s not just a comment on another countries culture and values. As:

Singapore ranks 9th on the UN Human Development Index with the 3rd highest GDP per capita. It is placed highly in key social indicators: education, healthcare, life expectancy, quality of life, personal safety and housing. Although income inequality is high, 90% of homes are owner-occupied.

Could it be because they aren’t Europeans :roll_eyes: :face_with_monocle: I hope it’s not racism?


“And who, Kaka, is going to do the voting? Of course, it appears at the moment that its likely that May’s deal will get voted down next week and, if so, she may decide to take it to a second vote. It seems unlikely that the EU will compromise further so getting approval at a second vote looks fairly unlikely. But, if she fails the second vote, what do you then suggest if parliament votes down a “no deal” exit? That’s the problem you face, and to be fair, its the problem we Remainers face too.
So in those circumstances, what do you suggest?”
Frog in a tree

If you are looking towards staying in the EU as a possibility, following the line of your questions, what will be in play in and amongst those questions is the contentious issue over the backstop. In the circumstances I personally would get behind the PM on Tuesday, if it happens . If not, then your questions will be in play and the backstop will need re-addressing or re-dressing as appropriate. I feel (hope) TM will deal with it though.


Kaka, what TM could have done 2 years ago is arrange for a 2nd referendum for right now on the final deal then voters could have actually ‘got behind the PM’…the only option for people is to contact their MP (who may or may not be listening). I couldn’t really understand why TM went on a tour of the country to sell her plan, seemed a waste of her time IMO.

If TM is heavily defeated then I expect those 48 letters to ‘finally’ be tendered and a Tory leadership election. But I don’t expect this will help matters. We are approaching a very chaotic time.

I would expect Parliament to attempt to find a way forward before Christmas (I doubt MP’s will want it interrupting their boozing)…but this will be a hard nut to crack. Corbyn has to come off the fence.


Or we Remain and then backstop not needed.



NO YOU asked – what would we lose by remaining. I explained Nothing you answer with drivel that you think makes you look clever.

We are now a bitter divided country. We have been lied to and conned. The Gov is in tatters. The only option is pay the EU £50bn and follow EU rules just so LEAVE saves face. The whole world is laughing at us. EDL racists are marching in support. Nearly all economists and business leaders think we will be worse off . We have yet to get to the point where business know what we are doing and start laying off.
and you come up with broadly happy with a pro-market, fiscal austerity and anti-state control. The status-quo.


I predict that as many people know who their MEP is as know who their MP is.

It’s true that from the UK only a little more than 33% of people tend to vote at European Parliament elections but then they receive almost zero Media coverage in the UK… and the average for UK General Elections is usually less than 66% despite all the huge Media coverage for months on end.


Oily we can look back in hindsight, I would say the referendum on EU membership should not have been put to the ballot box. Many moons have passed and we are wiser now. Like you having considered our position over membership and I forget the term for it where you have a conflict in your thoughts, but there are good arguments for both sides and in this latter respect TM’s deal is the nearest to both.


There was also no link to any Report on that matter that considered this.

The Adam Smith Institute is well known for short comments designed for the Media from any number of people who say they are members… as a visit to their website will show… but little in the way of considered Reports of the ilk of the BoE, Treasury or other bodies.
They are just another right wing political think-tank.


No… it is the furthest away from both you could get.

Personally, I want to Remain in the EU… however… if people decide to vote for ‘No Deal’ in a 'BrexitRef2 … then so be it and we will need to monitor the economic impact over the years.

Anything in between… is a con that will satisfy few.


JW I have the same opinion I want to REMAIN but if we have a vote with all we know now and the majority still want LEAVE I would be fully behind it… at least it would be based on truth.

Whats wrong now is LEAVE voters MP,s have lost all arguments for brexit, cant lie anymore and are left now with threats about "being on the streets " etc helped be EDL outright racists.


Kaka, and if we lived in a sane world than a ‘middle of the road’ deal would get a huge majority…but it looks like it’s the opposite, nobody likes ‘the deal’. So it’s difficult to see what will break the deadlock. Ideally the EU would tweak their offer but it seems unlikely. The ball is in the UK’s court…after all it was our decision to leave.


As the Adam Smith Institute has caught so many of your attentions, here’s their list of 100 Policy Suggestions for May:

Although I know Frog’s Singapore Miracle is slightly different. Singapore’s growth has been unique,

I’m sure there’ll be stuff in the ASI’s suggestions that’s bound to inspire you.

Help put your minds to rest about the post-Brexit world.


There’s lots on the site and they have a number interesting briefings.

Sign-up for the regular email newsletter. :wink:


Like I said… No Report… No Budget… No analysis backing up the claims… few facts that anything is based on.
Just a list of items that almost anyone in the country could come up with and list down.


Tim Worstall (ASI contributor): “I’m a Fellow at the Adam Smith Institute in London, a writer here and there on this and that and strangely, one of the global experts on the metal scandium, one of the rare earths. An odd thing to be but someone does have to be such and in this flavour of our universe I am…”

“In the longer term that free trade [unilateral zero import tariffs] also makes us richer. For the competition from Mr. Foreigner means that domestic manufacturers will become more productive. Obviously they will because if they don’t they’ll go bust. And average wages in an economy are determined by average productivity in an economy so if the one goes up then so too does the other. We become richer by reacting to said competition. Free trade is thus a double whammy of goodness, making us richer over time.”

“Worstall is a supporter of the UK Independence Party (UKIP), stood as a candidate for London in the European Parliament election, 2009, and acted as the party’s press officer.” (