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lse:lloy

#1104

Yes, T, I have no doubt that you are right that Nssan will be hoping that Brexit will be taking some of the blame. However, I don’t think they have been dishonest. There is a warning signal in there that Brexit is likely to be damaging to their business. And thousands of other businesses too. Brexiters are burying their heads in the sand.

Frog in a tree


#1105

@trisco This is what Nissan said… or are they lying?

“We appreciate this will be disappointing for our UK team and partners.
While we have taken this decision for business reasons, the continued uncertainty around the U.K.’s future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future."
and
“…the environment for the car industry in Europe has changed dramatically”.

So it covers 2 things… Emissions from Diesels and fall off in demand… as well as Brexit.
Two things.
Both are why they aren’t building cars in Sunderland.
Two things.
Two.


#1106

No @trisco… it’s a Trade Deal. It’s a large trade deal that the EU has been negotiating for a few years… and it also covers… cars.


#1107

Just the X Trail. Still building other cars.

Fairly certain I said Brexit was an issue. I just didn’t place it higher than you. Funny that :kissing_heart:


#1108

a nice, canny bit of politicking also in there from nissan it might seem:

Peter Campbell, the motor industry correspondent at the Financial Times, said the fall in demand for diesels would appear to be one of the main factors in the announcement as Nissan was planning to make mainly diesel versions of the X-Trail in Sunderland. He told the BBC: “If Nissan decided to make those cars in petrol it would have to ship engines over from Japan and the cost of doing that work against the decision to build it in the UK.”

And then you have:

Diesel share of car sales in Europe falls to to 17-year low

Diesel car registrations across Europe fell 17% in the first half of 2018, according to figures from Jato Dynamics. Diesel accounted for just 37% of sales in H1, the lowest for 17 years.

Diesel’s biggest falls were in Norway (-32%), the UK (-30%), Slovenia (-28%), Finland (-20%) and Belgium (-20%).

For some reason I can’t post the links to the full article?!


#1109

You must be a subscriber to see the full article on-line. Most of us are not.

Cheers,

Frog


#1110

What do you mean a subscriber? Buy shares?

I buy shares on a couple of platforms, but looking to give ii a go. I like the boards on here, even if it can get heated.

Bit of a daunting message board, but if the mods are reading - what a tremendous site!


#1111

I think the usual prob with the FT is that you can’t read the whole article unless you subscribe to the online version of the paper. Anyone else got any ideas on this one?

Cheers,

Frog


#1112

One was the BBC the other Autotrader.

Anyway, thanks for the help Frog


#1113

Listen @Trisco. I’m happy if you want the primary reason to be falling Diesel Sales and for Brexit to be the secondary.

Happy now?

It doesn’t alter any of the facts I said about (the triple whammy of) issues that any Japanese car manufacturer will face in UK.
I predict that within 5 years following Brexit there will be no Japanese car manufacturing in the UK.


#1114

Maybe you’ll be right. But are people going to stop buying cars? Are people seriously going to stop buying Toyota’s or Honda’s? The UK is a huge market for these manufactures and it’s not going to vanish over night. Same for all other overseas car makers.

We’re the 4th biggest purchase of BMWs, after China, Germany and USA. The 6th globally of all cars in 2017.

It’s almost as if we’ll never manufacture or export anything ever again and the world will simply end at the end of March.

I predict in 5 years time, life in the UK won’t be anywhere near as bad as what you’ve predicted. No where near.

And if I’m wrong, I’ll shout you lunch at Roka (Japanese restaurant). Which will still be booming in 5 years time.


#1115

Mr T, it’s difficult times for car manufacturers.

  • Confusion (from our government) on diesel policy has put people off
  • The shift to electric/cleaner engines
  • China showing signs of slowing (although still enviably high growth)
  • Brexit thingy
  • Japan-EU trade deal means Nissan in 8 years (?) can build cars in Japan to export to the EU without tariffs

Looking like a perfect storm for the car industry. Even without Brexit car manufacturers would be looking at their structure and deciding where to make strategic investments to prepare themselves for the future (as much as possible)…this Brexit thingy is just another series of barriers (potentially quite large obstacles) that weaken the case for future investment in the UK…if the UK gets reduced access to the EU (possibly quite severe restrictions in the event of a ‘No’ deal) then international companies will act in the interest of their shareholders. It would be naive to expect otherwise.

From a Leave voter turned Remainer (honestly)…an unpaid (unfortunately) EU stoolie to some :face_with_monocle:


#1116

And the simple answer is, if you have diminishing returns then you probably don’t want to build a new production line in a market that won’t be buying those cars. But on the other hand, if you want to be making further noise and perhaps receive further inducements from the government,

Looks like Nissan was offered additional support of up to £80m” in 2016 Probably at the time the GOV promised them access to the EU.
The business secretary has been forced to admit the existence of a previously secret package of state aid to Nissan that could have been worth up to £80m had the carmaker gone ahead with plans to manufacture a new model X-Trail in Sunderland after Brexit.


#1117

Mr T, have you been able to post links before? I would have thought the BBC link would work. Perhaps it’s because you’re greyed out (admin probation).

I have joined other discussion boards and there has been a period when newbies haven’t been able to do certain things (like post links)…could even be that you have to post a certain number of times before full privileges are made available. Just a thought.


#1118

Here’s your link:


#1119

Bit off topic, but:

Out of curiosity, if you were in the market for a brand new car what would you buy? Diesel, petrol, hybrid or electric?

It’s a tough one for the consumer too, so no wonder car manufactures are in a state of flux.

Electric isn’t developed enough, in my opinion, for it to be viable; Diesel cars resale values must be dropping like a stone, which leaves the other two.


#1120

Are Labour supporters happy with the level of Racism that is within the party ? I’m politically homeless now and will be for the considerable future.


#1121

Trisco, it’s not entirely off topic…because it all adds to the uncertainty faced by businesses & individuals…and certainty & consumer confidence are linked (IMO). The Brexit uncertainty is just adding to other uncertainties.

Hybrid & petrol are the options you say. Probably correct because full electric vehicles don’t really have the range or infrastructure for a big take up. But isn’t Hybrid electric? (in part)…a halfway house and ‘probably’ the way to go…although I’m not sure if manufacturers are introducing such models…Toyota Prius, is that the only one?


#1122

HARD BREXITER BUT SOFT IN THE HEAD…TYPICAL

Daniel Kawczynski MP made a mega error of historical fact on Saturday by claiming that the UK did not get a share of the post-war Marshall Plan money despite its contribution to fighting the Nazis. In fact it got more than any other country and thousands of us have contacted him to point out his error. Despite this, and still after four days, he has still failed to set out the truth of the matter and apologise. Why am I surprised? This is typical Little Englander Brexit propaganda which is basically a pack lies.

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#1123

Yep, that’s something people have on their minds it seems. Well, the UK ban of all sales of new petrol and diesel cars is still 21 years away (though hybrid cars will be exempt).
Most cars last about 11 years and the average length of time people own a car is 6 years.

So for most people… you could but a new car tomorrow… keep it for it’s whole life… and then buy another new car… and you still won’t be impacted by the UK Government emission law changes.

The same old arguments remain of petrol vs diesel of course and no point going over those. In terms of environmental impact… diesel emits more NOx than petrol… petrol emits more CO2…in general… take your pick.

Some appear to believe there are extra taxes for diesels rather than petrol… it’s not quite correct.
If you ignore Year 1 costs then every vehicle will have a flat charge of £140 in tax.
Note though a wealth tax that has appeared… which I haven’t heard many talk about… If your vehicle had a list price of more than £40k when new, then you’ll have to pay a wealth tax of (currently) £310 a year for five years (until the car is 6 years old)!

You’d expect diesel cars to be falling in price given supposed drop off in demand for diesel but I didn’t notice that when I was looking around for a new car in UK last year at all.
So… for me… I got a new petrol Dacia Duster (total cost £11k !) replaced my ‘old’ Accord (still have Caterham for track days).

Hybrid cars might be the way to go 20 years from now… maybe full electric even… but today hybrid cars have very poor mpg (on petrol) and electrics have all the issues of poor infrastructure. So damn all point in my opinion… unless you want to drive around feeling smug.