Then only join EFTA and you have trade without free movement of goods. I would ask the question in the other direction. Why is free movement such a problem? There were a lot of concerns before Romania, Bulgaria etc. joined. There was the spectre of millions of people marching towards the old member states. It didn’t happen and most of those that came have jobs. Those without a job have no right to receive welfare, which makes staying in a country unattractive. Also, with the economic rise of Eastern Europe, things are changing. There was a lot of economic improvement since they joined and I can imagine a future where people from Spain, Italy and even Germany will be looking for jobs in Poland or Hungary. Romania/Bulgaria will take longer.

The UK seems to be the only country that makes free movement of people a major concern. I have not heard the same from Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Italy… wherever you look. Not even the Lega in Italy is arguing against free movement, at least I never read about it.

The UK can quit its Schengen cooperation. I agree that it looks awkward that the EU insists on free movement for future relations while the UK could quit it right now without leaving - at least that is my naive understanding. I think the reason is that the EU doesn’t want to become a lose framework with different sets of optional rules - or a menu to chose from. If one country starts with free movement, the next wants an exemption for something else and so on.

It is a specially British point of view to pick what they like and dismiss the rest. The UK has a history of opportunistically aligning with other “spaces” and quit that cooperation when interests change. Other countries aren’t partners. They are for “economic extraction”. It’s like a ship that sails to somewhere, lays anchor and leaves when other places are more attractive. The UK docked with the EU when its economy was bad and economies on the continent were growing twice as fast. Later the UK caught up and was seeing the benefit dwindling. In the 1990 during the Clinton boom the UK changed its focus on the USA. When the USA fell out of fashion the UK tried to be best friend with the elites from Russia, Asia and the arabic world. It’s a constant search for the best benefit.

Other EU members always understood that we are European and that is the where we live and where we have to build a “common wealth”. The EU is about integration and most if - if not all - see the benefit. I think even Russia envies us for what we have. There is a naturally better understanding on the continent that a country has neighbours and integration and cooperation is natural and borders are losing importance.

What downsides?

That has always happened and the EU has to listen to them and try to adapt, but also has to figure out what is real and what is simply “libel and slander”.


Like I said… to stay in the single market, countries have to allow the free movement of goods, services, capital… and people.
That is not the same thing as EFTA.
It is the single market that is important to a country like the UK.

Why is free movement such a problem?

It isn’t for me personally… couldn’t give a damn.
However, it is an issue for many.
The reason that most people voted for Brexit (supposedly 88%… was Immigration)… so it can have a large impact whether you or I think it an issue or not.
And given that it needn’t be an issue… then why make it one?

The UK seems to be the only country that makes free movement of people a major concern.

That is plainly not the case.
Obviously… there’s Hungary.
Then there’s the anti-immigration Sweden Democrats.
Italy has the Five Star Movement and the far-right League party (the latter is defo against immigration)
In France we have populist Marine Le Pen.
There are also movements in Austria, Poland, Czech Republic and Slovenia.
And as you will well know… even in Germany, Angela Merkel’s coalition government was on the brink of collapse amid an inter-cabinet dispute over migration.

Point is… the EU doesn’t have to allow free movement of people… it could offer say a membership discount for those who do allow it… but it shouldn’t be compulsory.





The Brexiter flagger has been in action again. I have notification of three innocuous posts which have been flagged by someone who evidently did’nt like me referencing news reports of islamophobia in the Conservative party. Has anyone else been flagged? I shall self-flag this post. The Mods need to get this flagger sorted

Frog in a tree


How would you know if you’ve had a post flagged?

Can everyone stopped flagging? It’s pathetic. No matter the reason.


Is that James Goddard the full ticket? Suspect he’s not playing with a full deck and hopefully he’s dealt with appropriately.

Anyone know why the thuggish activist Ian Bone managed to get away with the bullying and harassment of JRM AND his children, last September?


I can’t see any flags? When I have flagged a post for someone throwing insults (not recently btw) I can see that flag.
Surely the moderator can see who is causing the problem (assuming it’s the same person) and suspended them. ie (beans broadmoor etc)
Equally as beans has been suspended I doubt it was necessarily a “brexiter” flagging his posts??
Just a thought



Just checked for the first time. To the best of my knowledge, no posts by me flagged (as yet!). If it’s happening to only very few people, presumably it’s a personal issue carried over from previous fallings out. If so, I wish people would simply post any strong gripes they have with any other individual(s), even if it’s on other threads, than try to get certain threads shut down. Not constructive at all, on top of which everyone else gets hit. - Regards.

Edit: In case of doubt, I personally have yet to flag a post from anyone. Including a thread on BARC with my alias in the title, which was clearly personalised & a poor attempt to provoke. Cheers.


Good point. The flagging problem took pace, when Beans was projectile vomiting his views and most likely as a result of that.

Re: Beans - shame really. In amongst the ridiculous number of posts, he did raise some good points about the EU and the current situation. But then again, he was told umpteen times “less is more”.


Another thought … no still sober atm
but the other day when beans added a gkp tag (I think) another poster came on to ask to have the tag removed … equally possible a barc or rbs poster could have got the hump ?


On that note, would it be helpful to have a “ding-dong” type thread? That way a falling out can be taken off whatever thread, and go there. Those that wish to take part can, and those that would like to avoid it can, but keeps BWs (for example) clean or abuse and arguments.


Beans made quite a nuisance of himself with his OTT multiple posting. Most likely complaints were made against him generally by both Leavers and Remainers.

I have been notified today of three of my posts that have been flagged. They are not abusive of any other poster and are fairly innocuous unless you have a political objection to the points I was making. It is obvious to me that a Brexiter was responsible, most likely not one of the brighter ones.


Frog in a tree


Yes but you’re paranoid :joy:


Fynne…that is a really stupid comment.



Frog you blame Brexit for pretty much everything… but it was a joke ?


Re: Flagging. As a brexiteer, as well as having to denounce all racism, bigotry and white supremacist mass shooting, for fear that my silence might in some way be seen as supporting such actions, I’d now like to formerly add to that list FLAGGING. Since it’s the brexiteers being accused of it.

Never a Flagger shall I be.

Man, the amount of things we Brexiteers get accused of.



Probably “helpful”, but maybe someone else can start off such a thread. Chances are it’ll last a few minutes to a couple of hours at best before ii’s mods remove it. :wink:

Personally speaking, I’m glad to have any brief ding-dongs on any germane threads as, presumably like you, I try to keep to basic standards of forum etiquette in all situations. Basically: I only occasionally get involved in very strong disagreements about markets or major issues like Brexit, but never personalise it & certainly never hold lasting grudges. Life’s too short & I’ve gone through more than enough c-rap in real life. But not everyone will be of a similar disposition to us. - Regards.


I note you didn’t denounce xenophobia.


The ‘jackdawson totally sucks’ thread was well worth a visit for a while.


Climate change too…it’s all the hot air :wink: