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how does this compare...

lse:edin

#1

with CTY investment trust?

I recently bought into city of london trust and note that this one seems to be outperforming. am I correct and is this the norm?

what is the history please and what criteria would you use to decide which one might be better over the long term.

any comments also about claverhouse and dunedin income trust?

Cheers
Rick


#2

Hi

Both are fairy generalist trusts with an income

CoL +7% growth 1 year 4.6% yield operating at 1% premium to NAV
Edin +15% growth 1 year 4.5% yield operating at 3% discount to NAV

No brainer really
been in and out of Edin many tomes over last 3 years and made money

Terry


#3

If you want to compare IT’s check the link below on AITC site.
Both are in the UK growth & Income sector and are similar. I looked at CLY but rejected it in favour of EDIN as I thought Neil Woodford had the edge at the time and still do. But there is nothing wrong with CLY.
This trust will not outperform in a rising bull market and has an emphasis on capital preservation as well as decent dividend policy.
Like many ‘risk off’ IT’s, it trades at a premium to NAV not a discount, and that premium is currently 2.8%.
I sold out last summer when the market dived and was my biggest mistake. I am back in but at a higher price and drip feeding and will stay for the long term now.

http://www.theaic.co.uk/Search-for-an-investment-company/Geographical-sector-search/Conventional-companies/Company-list/?id=6334&epslanguage=en&sector=UGI&structure=0&sort=2#table

IMHO


#4

Hi Rick,

When i looked to invest in either of these, the conclusions I came to were that CTY “seemed” to be sacrificing potential growth in order to grow the divi whereas EDIN was being “managed” to grow both divi and capital in an active way, or to preserve capital if it was felt the markets were uncertain.
regards
PE


#5

I have a large holding in EDIN- 10% of my SIPP and tend to top up on the rare occasions when it falls back from a premium to a slight discount.

Another 10% of my SIPP is in Lowland which has performed even better in the last year, after a period of underperformance. It trades at a discount of around 6%, although yields a little less than EDIN.

City Of London is a solid trust, but for my money either of the above are a better alternative.


#6

Yes LWI has done very well but it is traditionally more volatile. Fortunately I have been able to take advantage over the last year. If memory serves the divi is a bit lower…3+% and was only “held” one year recently?


#7

You’re right Pie Eater.

Trustnet currently has LWI’s yield at 3.12% and it is surprisingly more volatile than either City Of London or Edinburgh.

But its share price performance seems generally superior in the past 3 years and it is.

I’m happy having meaningful holdings in both EDIN and LWI in my SIPP. Personally I wouldn’t trade out of either of them into City Of London right now.


#8

I might be wrong but I think part of the volatility issue is down to LWI holding a wider spread on caps…there seems to be a higher proportion of both smaller and mid size co’s which were hit hard but now the cream is coming back to the top and those good companies (of any size) are starting to be recognised. That spread in cap size is also responsible of the smaller yield but also the fact that it grows


#9

Agree.

I seem to remember that the LWI managers liked to adopt a very rough rule of thumb approach to allocation which was:

large cap/mid cap/small cap = a third/ a third/ a third.

I don’t know whether they still use it, but LWI certainly has more exposure to volatile small caps…


#10

Just to maintain the dialogue. I sold out of BTEM 2 weeks ago after finally giving up on it after a no of years and decided to look at a few of these FTSE based investment trusts. I had held Edin previously so looked at them, CTY Dunedin and JPM Flaver. I have monitored the price of all 4 since and CTY is up 6.2%, Dunedin slightly less, Claverhouse slightly more but Edin is up closer to 9% in ths same period.

I shall continue this watching brief until the CTY divi at month-end has been paid and re-invested and may then switch to Edin as it does seem to be headed higher. No doubt Neil Woodford is a plus. I will also compare the discount/ premium before finally deciding.

Thanks for your views guys.
Cheers
Rick


#11

Just to throw a spanner in the works, it may also be worth looking at Troy Income and Growth (TIGT). The performance is broadly similar to EDIN, but it seems to favour oil majors instead of pharmas. It has received a few recommendations in the papers recently.

I hold a big chunk of EDIN, but may diversify into TIGT after some more investigation.

Any thoughts on this trust?


#12

I wouldn’t worry too much about discount longer term…3 yrs plus, but it can be important shorter term, say up to 1yr.

Dunedin ok ish recently but I am looking for an exit point…TIGT is the most likely recipient as already have heavy exposure to Mr Woodford. TIGT also has a discount control mechanism if that floats your boat.
CTY covered previously.
Wouldn’t touch JPM with a barge pole. Once went to their offices for a presentation when they were trying to get our pension fund to invest with them…my 17 year old would do better. Only thing I use them for is Russian trust and Nat Resources OEIC as a foil to BRWM

PE


#13

Sebastian Lyon (ex Lord Weinstock trust manager) and (Lord) Francis Brooke are of the absolute return mentality - don’t lose money first in falling markets and grow it in rising markets. Will not tend to shhot the lights out but will let you sleep at night with the discount controls in place.
Already have some but looking to top up as per previous post

PE


#14

Have also seen this Troy fund recommended heavily in newspapers and Money Observer which is my bible. Can’t be in everything but I will add it to my list which will make it a list of 6 now.

I will move into the winner when my divi from CTY at month end is safely invested.

My price comparisons are all based from prices as at 12 Feb, Edin streets ahead now at 10% +, others between 6 and 7, except lowland around 2%.

Cheers
Rick


#15

I bought quite heavily into TIGT around a month ago to diversify away from holdings in EDIN and LWI.

One quarterly didv banked so far, and so far, so good.