LLOYDS is going to FLY



Hi @J_Westlock, Well PMIs are way down as is GDP, so borrowing will likely be down too - not good for bank profits. But I could be putting 2 and 2 together to make 5…?.

Happy New Year by the way, hope you had a good Xmas.




64p will be good tomorrow Mr Market

We ( Lloyd’s investors) have nearly had 4 years of pain in the arsenal

Time to bring me sunshine in 2020 pretty please

2020 bounce back year for Lloyd’s/ RBS/ Barclays IMHO the sold off value stocks


Hi Again @J_Westlock, So what’s going on with US small caps (Russell 2000) then ?, all of the other US indices have been well positive all day but small caps dropped like a stone at 18:45 UK time and ended the day 0.4% down whereas everything else was up big time…?




Yes… Happy New Year.

I think the Russell 2000 has been very volatile since Xmas. It dropped from opening today didn’t it before recovering somewhat?

It probably just reflects the uncertainty around at the moment.
I listened to some US economists earlier who estimated the S&P would increase by about 5% this year.

Whatever happens I’m continuing with my plan to stay diversified across most world markets.


Hi skiking37, Well looks like The Donald might have provided you with a trading opportunity with the US air strike that killed an Iranian military leader effectively throwing a hand grenade into an already sensitive situation. Markets look as though they may all knocked back significantly as a result. Not sure how long it will last though, unless things escalate ?.

I don’t Immediately see why it should do too much to Lloyd’s but they may just follow whatever the FTSE ends up doing ?.




Hi Again @J_Westlock, I see that ORIT is getting close to giving you your desired 10% gain. Just goes to show how strong the demand is for renewable energy investments, given that the IPO was less than a month ago (and with Xmas in between) my bet is that they probably dont even own any assets yet !.

You really going to sell at that point and not hold for even greater gains plus of course the dividends ?. Once you sell, given your views on the premiums on these trusts, my guess is they will all be off your radar for a while - if not permanently. I didnt think that UKW could go past 150 (due the effect on the dividend yield) but its at 152.x today…yield now in the low 4.x’s. I sold in the high 140s and moved my money to NESF to get 5.x% + greater chance of more capital gains.

Anyway a 10% gain in not much more than a month is not to be sniffed at. I am regretting not having bought but I was distracted by election stuff at the time and I also thought that BP & RDSB might be better bets, but it didnt work out in the end.

Anyway ATB


PS Looks like US markets likely to be down today on the Iran news…


Yes… it’s a good bet they own little at the moment.
My Limit Order is still in place but I am in two minds about it.

Oilers up nicely today thanks to latest US aggression.


That’s right but LLOYDS being a basket case donkey of an outfit will be back in the 50s soon on its own account.

The much vaunted Liar Boris bounce didn’t last long did it? Brexititis will drag it down further.

But I’ll be looking to buy shares for the divi once I’ve managed to talk the price down further.




The above is an example how all things one day can look so rosy

Then the next day morning what happens !!!

Its getting tiresome all this to be honest


Don’t worry @regardless, that trade Deal will soon be signed with the EU and then all the benefits of leaving the EU will come to the rescue.
A bright future is ahead.


…and perhaps the assassination in Iraq is another of The Groper’s market manipulations?



More uncertainty, because there WILL be a response one way or another. Maybe several.


Motley again recommending LLOY:

“The exposure of Lloyds (LSE: LLOY) to the UK economy has contributed to its lacklustre share price performance over recent years. Investors have been cautious about the UK’s economic outlook during the Brexit period, and this could persist during 2020. This presents a potential buying opportunity for long-term investors. Lloyds currently trades on a price-to-earnings (P/E) ratio of 9, which suggests that it offers a wide margin of safety. Furthermore, it has a dividend yield of 5.6%, which is covered twice by net profit. This could mean that it is able to generate strong total returns over the coming years. Of course, the bank’s recent updates have shown that trading conditions are uncertain. Business and consumer confidence could be held back by Brexit negotiations in the next year. However, for investors who have a long time horizon, Lloyds could offer recovery potential as it removes additional costs from its business and invests in digital capabilities. As such, now could be the right time to buy it based on a favourable risk/reward ratio.”

Cue “MF? Tomorrow they will say the exact opposite etc etc”


Frog in a tree


I can’t remember a time in the last 30 years when someone hasn’t been coming up with that one at almost every bank.


Hi @Eadwig, I happened to meet up with my plumber in the street on a Saturday. He replaced our old gas boiler with a newer condensing type must be 10 years ago now and has serviced it for us every year since. He is a nice guy and also does any plumbing work that we need doing.

I asked him how things were likely to go down in the industry with everyone needing to replace their gas boilers if we are going to address global warming. I have investigated an electric boiler replacement but these are more expensive to buy and about three times more expensive to run, so that’s not a goer IMV. There are other renewable heating solutions available like air and ground source heat pumps but again they are expensive AND you need to replace your radiators (so a major installation task as well).

He told me that converting (or replacing) your gas boiler with a hydrogen powered boiler was looking like a promising solution. You can retain your existing radiators that way and zero emissions. Of course this immediately brought AFC Energy to mind and I see from their blurb this is indeed does form part of their plans. I had thought it was just the electric vehicle charging, but gas boiler replacement would be a huge worldwide market for them too. Interesting !. Almost enough to make me think about investing, but they are just so volatile……




AFC is far more than just E.V. charging which is a relatively new idea for them. However, hydrogen boilers are not on their radar so far as I am aware.

Far more likely are very large multi-megawatt facilities using waste hydrogen to feed the grid and also as a proxy-battery storage for intermittent power sources like wind and solar.

They have also developed a by-product called Alkamem which looks like it might replace a lot of existing components within electrolysis processes (whether or not to do with hydrogen), a market worth well over $1Bn p.a. The company awaits third party confirmation on final testing to show that it is much more efficient than anything else currently on the market. This potentially could become AFC’s premier revenue stream and it was only developed in order to get around a problem in their own generation facilities.

AFC is volatile at the moment because of these new products hitting the market (last December and coming up in June) plus the surprise discovery and patenting of the Alkamem product with a whole new field of potential opening up… maybe.


Hi Again @Eadwig, Tried doing some more detailed digging on this issue and whether in fact AFC Energy do have anything planned in respect of boilers. Found a few references to boilers & AFC Energy dotted about but nothing that sounds definitive so maybe its not on their immediate radar.

Did find the following articles though which shows that people are developing Hydrogen boilers




I’m not aware of it. They manufacture fuel cells which convert hydrogen to electricity … and you can have an electric boiler of course. However, at the moment if you wanted an AFC electric boiler you’d be looking at fitting it in a 10’ shipping container somewhere in your house, which is why I’m doubtful they are seriously thinking about it, and very much hope they aren’t as they have far bigger fish to fry right now with the technology they have got.


Something not quite so volatile that has a stake in hydrogen both in future and the now (particularly in Oz) is Siemens. Among many other things they sell electrolysis equipment and plants.

I don’t invest in many individual companies now, like yourself, but Siemens would certainly be one I’d hold again if I did.


Very true, @J_Westlock. The trouble with this approach if you think you’ve spotted a trend, is that huge companies like Siemens can almost totally swallow that trend without it hardly moving the needle on the stock.

I had the same problem with wind power plays around 12-15 years ago in USA. At the time everywhere I went I was taking over massive lorries with huge turbine blades, but when trying to break down a turbine to see where all the money from the growing trend was going the trail led to almost entirely huge companies providing the various parts. Same went for the fracking revolution when it came to equipment.

Very hard to isolate parts of these (possible) major trends in a way that makes a lot of money through investing. It almost always only works in tech or biotech when a company has a patent or a good head start on the opposition … like Pace Micro with set top boxes (10 bagger).