LLOYDS is going to FLY



Surely that is the same with most companies? Lloyds won’t be the only one doing it.


Possibly other companies do the same, doesn’t mean it comes at no cost though. Lloy has chosen to reward employees with shares and we’ve seen how the number of shares in issue has escalated by doing that. I think lloy realises the damage it is doing, hence moves to reduce number of shares through buyback. There’s a cost to doing that of course… My

argument is that the shares should be bought on the open market not simply by printing more and more, and recorded as a cost in the p&l, but as I’ve said before it would blow a hole in Horta claims to have the best cost to income ratio in the banking world… smoke and mirrors…

K[quote=“PHILKES, post:3962, topic:1144884, full:true”]
Surely that is the same with most companies? Lloyds won’t be the only one doing it.


I worked for Old Mutual … they done sharesave schemes and just issued new shares

Nothing different here with the black horse , all solid FTSE 100 companies do this

No one was too bothered there

Traders just like to urge for the sake of arguing IMHO


Ok, so there are 70b shares now. What do you think would happen to the EPS if lloy printed another 70b tomorrow? That’s right, the EPS would halve. What do you think would happen to the dividend cover if lloy didn’t cut its dividend? Yes, it would halve and the market would see the dividend as unsustainable and the sp would drop like a stone… that would really hit your pension pot @regardless. I think you know all of this anyway and you don’t need me or anyone else to explain it but hey ho, I’ll indulge you…

Regards again
Kquote=“regardless, post:3964, topic:1144884, full:true”]
I worked for Old Mutual … they done sharesave schemes and just issued new shares

Nothing different here with the black horse , all solid FTSE 100 companies do this

No one was too bothered there

Traders just like to urge for the sake of arguing IMHO


Hi @PHILKES, I am sorry if use of this ONE LLOY thread for adhoc discussion purposes annoys you. But there are many other LLOY threads to choose from or you could start your own and use the tracking feature to ignore this one.

Except for very rare exceptions you won’t find me posting anywhere else on ii, as by and large many of the other boards seem pretty dead to me and posting in a vacuum isn’t very satisfying.

So if you want to avoid these adhoc discussions why not simply tune out this ONE thread, given that much of the material presented is not about LLOY and therefore of no interest to you ?.




Hi @J_Westlock, Well finished the decorating on Tuesday and put the room back together today, finally got some time to think about investing issues again !.

Bought about £5,000 worth of JAI today as I very much like the look of their top 10 holdings and a total return comparison with AAIF, IAPD and SEDY is very much in JAIs favour. ~40% invested in China though which is a concern, but with new virus cases reducing maybe it will be OK. Looking at charts of each holding they have all dipped and recovered to an extent.

Still got a sizeable wedge of cash though, so equipped to buy more if share prices drop. Or I might still buy more prefs…

Won’t be buying LLOY though, not going great is it ?. But BDEV and PSN wow…no stopping them it seems. Not for me though, too expensive.




I agree this thread is so educating to me … personally I like anything to do with investing Pensions, final salaries or contributions Pensions etc … and how others make money…and good advice good or bad


Yes it’s been a good week. Today again most things well up again almost everywhere.
My China etf, HMCH has done particularly well but now that and several others like IKOR have hit their sell limits so time to reset and put in orders at lower levels… might be a while before they execute.
Hoping that Carnival starts an upward path from here and my timing is right… and that Copper ETF continues upward… but for individual stocks I’m chiefly selecting from US market… there’s a surprising number of quality companies that are some way off their ATHs (like JPM) and that should do very well.


Hi Again @J_Westlock, Carnival eh ?. Wow that’s a brave move, ships full of Coronavirus sufferers busily infecting everyone else on board hmmmm but up 2.5% today I see.

Re HMCH is that how you play all of your investments then, buy low with a target and sell when that’s reached, rinse and repeat - trader style ?. Or do you some long term holds as well ?.

I ONLY have long term holds, but I am not afraid to get out and invest elsewhere if I see what I think are credible threats - sometimes it saves me money. sometimes not. But i organise my portfolio as a large number of small holdings so that I can afford to sell and invest elsewhere if I decide that’s the safest thing to do.




Yes, that one’s a bit of a gamble as it can easily get a lot worse for them over coming weeks… but I have a stop as well as a limit in place on that one as it’s on my Saxo a/c (where I can do that). It wouldn’t surprise me if this bounces around a lot.
COPA is also a worry as I rarely have much look with commodities but I felt the 12% January fall (again thanks to the outbreak) will largely be reversed in coming weeks… that’s the bet anyway.

I try to have everything with either dated or GTC limits but exceptions are that Charles Stanley only allows day orders… so I have to continually re-enter orders (so don’t usually)… and some orders hit their dates and I don’t notice for a while…oh and of course some funds you aren’t allowed to place limit orders on (with my broker/s at least).


… and that will be the time to buy. This virus crisis wont last for ever but cruises will, so far as our investing life times are concerned.

So, I’d beware of your stop and be more inclined to add if the price keeps dropping during this period of bad news if you have already evaluated them as a worthwhile long term play.

I have half an eye on them as a come-back trade at some point later this year.


Hi All, Well a pretty eventful morning so far, notably:-

  • Market spooked by apparent big increase in coronavirus cases (or is it just this new method of identifying them ?). Not all Far East holdings are reacting the same, some are even up a bit. Commodities down though and US Futures. FTSE 100 down over 1% as I write this, only ~20 stocks in the green.
  • BP & RDSB both XD today which wont have helped the FTSE. Both are down by more than the dividend amount. Oil down close to 1% again.
  • CNA down ~17% on poor final results and dividend cut (surely the biggest dog in the FTSE ?). Bet you are glad to be out of them @regardless ? (hope you are).
  • Carnival down ~3.8% on virus scare, might trip your stop @J_Westlock ?
  • Lloyds down 1.25% too at 56.9 (just for you @PHILKES).



PS @J_Westlock - RAVP pricing on XD day today typically weird, yesterday they were 136 (Buy) and 133.5 (Sell), today after a 3p dividend they were 135 (Buy) and 134.5 (Sell). ie Received a 3p dividend and the price went UP !. I dont expect it to stay that way.



Sorry about the off topic ETF/IT comments. Never meant to upset. I’ve asked before for a pure LLOY thread, even tried starting one, but when you get no reply it’s still-born unfortunately and therefore, completely useless. The response I received here when I asked was (as @PrefInvestor1 said)… yes an active LLOY discussion here but also an active thread where other stuff gets mentioned too. Active is the important bit - don’t always agree with the responses but always listen/read

Hence I always try to lead off with a subject. Pure LLOY will be LSE:LLOY 1st line from me. ETF 1st line is the ETF sub-thread. No 1st line, probably just a sarcastic comment.

ITDYA, more than happy to contribute to a new pure LLOY thread just need it to have life! And just read CNA results… it’s not a dog; if it was a dog they would put it out of it’s misery.


Occasionally, I look up other companies (VOD, RDSB to name a couple) posts and there are no recent comments whatsoever, so I’m happy that this goes off topic as long as it stays on financials or what affects the markets, and yes, that does include Brexit.

Back to LLOY. Seems the donkey has stirred. Jumped 1% in 15 mins. I’m sure its a blip :sob:


Peculiar, I’m not sure what to make of that. It’s 132/135 now so spread has widened a little.
Either way, enough uncertainties with RAV for me to seek another pref share next month.


Yes… all agreed. As it stands at the moment it’s at the price I bought at end of Jan so not (yet) unhappy. Will need to sink quite steeply to meet my stop. Sink being the word with this one.


Yes but those are the official spread figures, what I gave you were the live prices obtained by doing dummy trades.




How do you do a “dummy” trade? I’m looking at what Charles Stanley show just before I (could) press accept on a price on their market screen… I could buy @ 135.
I can’t test the sell price though.


Well unless you are already holding you can’t do a dummy sell trade, if you are you just initiate the trade as if you were going to sell but cancel it when shown the price - rather than accepting it.

As I said to you some while back, the actual selling price and the bottom of the official spread can be considerably different for prefs. Today the actual selling price for RAVP is 134.5 whereas the bottom of the official spread is 132.

Obviously you can do a dummy buy trade at any time, as you’ve found.



PS If you aren’t holding the only way to find out the actual selling price is to look at the trade data on the LSE or ADVFN or equivalent.


Hi Again @J_Westlock, Well I just bought some AEWL this morning when they went XD. An unusual REIT that is trading at almost 20p less than it’s NAV of ~95p (most trade at a discount). 2020 target dividend is set at 5.5p, yield about 7.2%, LTV ~35% .

The trust only holds long lease properties (typically 18 years plus) and 92% of its properties have rental agreements that are regularly reviewed on an upwards only basis (many being RPI or CPI indexed linked) which is nice. Good spread of property types, no significant retail exposure as far as I can see.

The trust was almost wound up last year but following a strategic review in April 2019 that didn’t happen, but they are now apparently searching for a new investment manager to manage the groups properties.

Looks good to me ATM – just have to see how it goes after holding it for a bit……