LLOYDS is going to FLY



But I’m seeing 135 via my Broker… (to buy)… if I press the next button to accept then that’s the price I buy it at.
I have to assume that the Sell price they are currently showing (132) is equally what they would Sell it at if I held some… though as we agree I can’t test that without holding some.

I guess I don’t know what ‘official spread’ means… I can only use what my broker shows/uses as the bid/offer prices.


HI @J_Westlock, Well the “official spread” gives you a good idea of what the buy and sell prices are - thats your 132/135 example, but it does NOT tell you the actual price at which you would buy or sell if you actually did a trade. For equities and highly liquid investments eg LLOY the actual figures are so close to the official spread that it makes little difference - but there would actually be a difference probably. Thats not true for prefs though which have a wide spread and the price at which you would actually buy and sell can be anywhere inside the official spread. And 2.5p extra on the selling price as in the case of RAVP today is quite a big difference !.

When I had an 80%+ pref portfolio doing dummy sell trades each day and maintaining my own spreadsheet was the only way to accurately value my portfolio. If I looked at my portfolio on my brokers website it would value all of the holdings as at the bottom of the official spread. That would typically equate to a 4 digit difference (lower) in the value of my portfolio !!!.

Does that help ?.




Black beauty is certainly galloping along now. Up 2.54% since 11:30.


Yep I get that… the only truth I can see on my trading screen though is that Charles Stanley’s current offer price is 135 ie. that’s what I would be able to buy it at.

I’ve just not yet seen an example of where their displayed bid/offer prices on my brokers are different to what I get on the screen when I press buy/sell… and they last for about 15 seconds then cancel.
I see the bid/offer prices changing all the time for well traded stocks.


“I guess I don’t know what ‘official spread’ means… I can only use what my broker shows/uses as the bid/offer prices”.

Good afternoon J Westlock,

It may not help you that much in what you are trying to achieve but if you are able to look at the Hargreaves Landsdown site for whichever stock you have in mind you will see the "official spread " at the top of the page but if you scroll down the page on the right you will see “recent trades” which should give you a better perspective on the atual trading prices. The more active the stock the more recent the “active stock” price.

Kind regards



Well right now the actual price to buy RAVP is 135 which is the top of the official spread. That’s a pretty unusual occurrence TBH in most cases the actual buy price will be lower than the top of the official spread and the actual selling price a bit higher than the bottom of the official spread.

You shouldn’t read 132/135 as 132 being the bid price and 135 being the offer price. They are BOTH ranges. The bid price can be any value between 132 & 135 and so can the offer price. With the actual offer price being higher than the bid price.

Look at the trade data for RAVP or one of the other prefs for today. Figures closest to the top of the official spread will normally have been buys at that price, figures closer to the bottom of the official spread will normally have been sells at that price.

One other important thing that you should know is that I think that SOME brokers can only execute trades at the official spread figures. Again you can see that if you look at the trade data as I have done many times. Trades at the official spread figures stand out like a sore thumb. You really DONT want to hold prefs with a broker that does that as you will be at a big disadvantage given the large spread on prefs. I only have practical experience of doing trades on Hargreaves and I know that their system works fine. No idea about Charles Stanley or any of the other brokers. You could try doing some dummy trades on other prefs and see what prices you get offered (not going through with any of them obviously) - if every buy is the top of the official spread then that’s bad news…




55p before update looking like mission impossible

Any good news like no more provisions needed for PPI

Will send us into orbit


OK thanks TJ and Pref.
I’m going to do some experimenting when I get some time.


Well, that was a bizarre day for LLOY, down over 1.5% at one stage and then jumped over 2.5% to finish 1% up on the day. Given that this donkey quickly gives up what it gains I predict this will fall back to 57.5 be close tomorrow.

At least LLOY was up unlike RDSB. As much as it is common for sp to drop when going XD I didn’t expect such a big drop. I was hoping for a bigger rise during the week in the run up to XD day - got that one wrong (again).


Close 58p quite inspirational TBH I agree


I bought Shell at 2044 a couple of weeks back

Looking like a crap buy but only 10k worth and dividend in the bag

Like here with Lloyd’s shares as long as they pay me to hold, I not in any rush to trade my chips in


Hi Again @J_Westlock, OK the trade data for RSAB today obtained from ADVFN illustrates the points I was trying to explain to you earlier, see below:-

The “official spread” was the same all day, see the Bid (132) & Offer (135) columns. But no trades were done at these prices. All the buys went through at 134.9 slightly under the official spread offer value. Two sells went through at 133.45 and one late in the day at 132.5 - again all slightly above the official spread bid value. Had there been ANY trades in the list at 132 or 135 exactly I would strongly suspect that those trades were done using a broker that can ONLY trade at the official spread figures.

Here is todays trade data for RAVP as well:-

As you can see the official spread figure changed at various points during the day, but the Offer figure was 135 all day and the Bid figure was 130, 132, 133 & 134 at different times. My reading of this is that ALL the trades were Buys except trades 4 & 5 that were Sells and went through at 134.5 & 134.56. Trade 9 was a large trade and they had to pay more than 135, that can happen too.

Anyway no need to experiment now, you can see how it all works right there in those examples I think.




Yes @skiking37, Seems like the LLOY share price likes it when the GBP is doing well. SP headed up at about 11:30 same for the GBP, see below:-


Difficult to understand why the GBP did well with todays events, but there you go.




Lloyd’s is the only share I can really rely on

She moves up … she moves down

She bounces and she drops

She pays my wages , I made a fortune in Dividends and my odd trade over the year’s

Investors and traders one love …

Will I see 80p plus?

Don’t really care really she’s my baby


Yes I see… thanks.

I’ve never noticed or thought about that as I always leave limit orders and have only rarely executed market orders… and also therefore don’t pay attention to the broker’s spread at the time of executing a trade.

It has made me wonder what the differences are (if any) between my brokers on both their quoted spreads as well as price trades are actually executed at… which is something you’d only notice on illiquid stocks I guess.


Hi @regardless, Well Lloyd’s is your annuity really, you’ve done the heavy lifting to accumulate your huge holding and you can just sit back and live off the (now quarterly) dividends while you wait for the price to go up (whenever that might be…). I can’t see the dividend being threatened unless some new disaster hits Lloyd’s and I don’t see the company going out of business either. So as long as you are prepared to be patient and put up with what I suspect are still ongoing paper losses then your situation should be stable at least and would improve radically if the share price took off.

It’s still a risk having all of your financial eggs in one basket though. I thought I was 100% secure with my pref holdings until March 2018 came along and changed all that at a stroke. And I had some 13 different pref holdings but all in the same asset class and all were hit. Being heavily diversified is the ONLY way to avoid such unforseeable financial torpedos - but I understand your position. I hope it all works out for you.




Hi All, Well looks like the FTSE might get off to a positive start today. New virus cases yesterday much down on the day before, but still higher than with the old diagnosis method. Far East markets mixed but mostly slightly positive. GBP steady at 1.305 (LLOY reacted positively to yesterday’s upward move I note), Oil up a smidge. US Futures in the green by 0.2-0.3%. IG has the FTSE up 0.25% ATM.

Best of luck with your investments……




RBS results are robust IMHO

Market makers been harsh on Banks with high expectations

RBS Shareprice down on open bringing us down with her as usual

Maybe the market doesn’t like the lower than expected final dividend of 3p plus a 5p Special total 8p

Who knows I say …afterall this is a casino after all and the house ( market) always wins


Its not supposed to be. Markets are supposed to have growth (added value) which casinos don’t.

That’s why you’re investment is still alive. Withdraw it all and place it on Evens on the roulette wheel once every year and see how long it lasts.

Mind you, if you get lucky and double it 2 or 3 years in a row you might decide that’s good enough for you to live on and quit.

… then you’re going to say to yourself … “where can I put this money so it doesn’t get eaten by inflation?”

… and back to the stock market you will go.


I wonder if you’ll still be happy should it move to a range of 40-50p…


Hi Again All, Well not the positive start for the FTSE that I was hoping for, both RBS & AZN reporting today and Mr Market didnt like either of the results it would seem (though at a quick scan I have to say neither of them looked bad to me ?). RBS down ~5% and AZN down about 2% as I write this (but seems to be bouncing back a bit).

Lets face it results day is always hazardous - getting to be more like the US all the time. There if you hit the ball out of the park (beating analysts estimates on revenue, earnings, profit etc) then you could go up 10%, but miss on anything or say the wrong word in the earnings call and chances are your share price is toast.