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LLOYDS is going to FLY

lse:lloy

#1157

Hi Ripley

So sorry to hear of your concerns/predicament.
As to Share Centre, no it is not Govt. owned, they would just bid for the share portfolios of failed brokerages, as per J Westlock post.

Unfortunately Administrators can legally deduct their fees from client accounts .
It happened in the case of a previous brokerage failure. Beaufort

However there was some media backlash against that so the chances of that happening again and being allowed I would consider to be somewhat reduced.
Unfortunately would think it will be quite some time before you can do anything with the shareholdings

It is going to be some time before there is a clearer picture.
If I hear anything, will post here.

I would guess some more media news on this will be out Monday.

Hate this sort of stuff, investing/trading hard enough without brokers/providers tripping you up.

Sorry and Good Luck.

soi


#1158

Hi All,

I agree completely with the most recent posts by soi and j_westlock. These are scary events and I have real sympathy for Ripley94. To others reading these posts this should be a wake-up call to consider the safety of your own broking arrangements. In particular I suggest you ask yourself the following questions:-

  1. How are your broker(s) doing ?. Are they big successful and profitable companies and therefore less likely to go bust ?. If you are using some small broker just because their fees are low is that something you are still happy to continue doing ?.
  2. Are your broker(s) FSCS protected ?. If you don’t know the answer then take action to find out.
  3. Do you have more than £85,000 invested in one broker and hence have gone beyond the FSCS protection limit ?. If so maybe you should consider using more than one broker. But remember if you have a partner or spouse then they can have a separate account with your current broker and holding half your investments in their name can provide a further £85,000s worth of FSCS protection at the one broker.
  4. Do you have your own up to date set of records documenting your holdings at each broker ?. If you had to go to the FSCS (or an administrator perhaps ?) and describe exactly what you had could you do so ?. Don’t rely on your brokers website still being available as if they get into problems it quite likely it won’t be. Personally I download a copy of my portfolio from my broker monthly and also keep a copy of ALL my contract notes forever on my computer.

If you are really freaked out by the risk of a broker failing then you could consider holding paper certificates for some holdings (though these will then be very difficult to trade) and you might consider trying to find a broker where you can have a personal Crest account (but this will probably cost you something). Both these methods will get your name on the share register eliminating the nominee account risk.

There can be all sorts of reasons for having different broker accounts. You might well need different accounts for spread betting, ISAs, SIPPs, foreign currency accounts, Options trading etc. depending on the trading activities that you do and your own financial arrangements.

While opening accounts with different brokers is usually pretty easy making transfers between them can be time consuming and error prone - I have seen numerous reports of people who have had problems posted on these boards. That’s not a good reason not to do it but it is worrying.

Most brokers now will offer the option to transfer your holdings as shares from your existing broker (an “in specie” transfer) - this avoids the costs associated with selling your holdings and buying them back at your new broker. But this can be a source of delays and errors. There is also likely to be a charge for this levied by the broker you are transferring from. Some brokers will offer to cover any charges made by your existing broker if you transfer. When transferring brokers you should be aware of the fact that you are not going to be able to trade while the transfer Is going on (which can take many weeks I believe) and you will effectively be out of the market for that time (if you transfer in cash) or be unable to trade (if you do an “in specie” transfer).

I have been around this buoy several times before in the past myself and this is a summary of my personal thoughts on the issue. While I believe it to be correct I cannot 100% guarantee it - I can only repeat that you would do well to take some timeout to consider this whole area if you haven’t done so already.

Ripley once again I hope that everything works out OK for you.

ATB

Pref


#1159

Thankyou soI.
I was not as worried Friday as I am today maybe these things take time to sink in.
I’m wondering how many clients they had as not coming across others with them.
I read it was professional clients only who where charged with Beafort not sure if that is correct.
I do not know anyone else who owns shares ( no one in my circles )
So anything you hear much appreciated.
As I said Thank God I found a cheaper one a few years back any newer buys mainly through them.
Do others mainly just have the one broker.


#1160

Thanks again prefinvester1
Shareing info and helping each other is what I think these boards should be about.
I am surprised that you suggest so many would be under the 85k.
As others knowledge mainly greater then mine better at trading I had thought.
How do you judge these brokers.
Jarvis is plc… So like a share.
S vs not listed how would you get any idea of how they were trading.
Bell just resently I p o. ( good sign I guess )
What about the Dutch New boy… Winning many broker awards?
Industry awards count for anything?


#1161

Hi Again @Ripley94,

Did I suggest that most people only have one broker ?. I didnt think I did, and if so it wasnt intentional. I think that a lot of people likely have more than one due to involvement in spread betting, having a SIPP etc. I can say that I personally have taken the decision to only have one broker (though I have an account in my wifes name also) so £170,000 of FSCS cover. I dont do spreadbetting or have a SIPP or any of those things that are likely to force you to have more than one broker.

I made the choice back when the FSCS limit was down at £50,000 and to obtain full FSCS coverage of my portfolio would have required N brokers where N is a significant number. Consider an ISA millionaires problem (not me I hasten to add) but are they really going to have 20 accounts + for FSCS coverage ?. No I dont think so. No I chose to stick with the biggest, best funded and most profitable broker - even if their charges are high. I also wasnt keen to get into doing big financial transfers OR to have to operate with money in N different places, but thats just me.

But it IS a personal choice and one that people should make for themselves having thought about the issues.

Regarding investigating your broker(s), use google thats what I do mostly. Or other web sites such as the FSCS which will tell you if they are registered. You can also send them written questions, I did that also.

Anyway ATB

Pref


#1162

I get all sorts ringing me most always start by saying. F S C S registered.
With SVs I also asked them if clients asserts segregated was assured they were.
It’s all over phone I’m constantly told all calls recorded.
But it all appears to be down to trust in what they tell you, would it make any difference if I asked them to put it all in writing.


#1163

Just a minor correction in case anyone got the wrong idea… you can have any number of SIPPs and any number of pensions… the only restrictions are that you cannot contribute more in total than the annual allowance, that their total value cannot exceed the LTA … and you cannot reclaim more in tax relief than you have paid in tax.

There are advantages and disadvantages to using multiple brokers. The small potential of a broker going into admin and then far smaller potential of you losing out due to that… though a very tiny possibility… needs to be weighed against you losing every penny you have ever invested should the worst happen.


#1164

I am with Jarvis for my ISA, are they related to these problems?


#1165

Hi swamp

Short answer NO, Jarvis not related to this case.
Quite a decent broker as it goes ( Jarvis ) IMO

soi


#1166

Well, you should defo avoid any that say they don’t segregate client funds and that aren’t registered as approved with FCA.
But even then… remember MF Global some 8 years back? It didn’t stop them raiding the segregated client fund pot when the shit started to hit the fan for their business.Good news was that more than 90%+ of their clients got their money back after several years.
Similarly with the more recent Beaufort case… almost all clients got all their money back, in that case after several months.

I thought it was SVS Securities PLC ? Is the broker not listed?


#1167

You are correct.

Listed on AIM.Has a stock market listing.

ATB

soi


#1168

You sure about that soi ?
There’s an SVS ticker, but that’s for Savills


#1169

Same as any other company mate, companies house.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04402606/filing-history

There’s not really any obvious red flags in there, so I’m not sure you’d have picked anything up by checking it out though


#1170

Hi @swamp_rat, So guessing your with XO as your broker then ? they appear to be run by “Jarvis investment Management” part of “Jarvis Securities”. They are an AIM listed company with the epic code JIM. Looking on the LSE web site they have a ~£50m market cap and their half year results says they made £1.9m in profit for the first half of 2019. A bit of googling would seem to indicate that they have about 50 employees.

So not the same company as SVS Securities by the look of it but another AIM listed broker. Had problems locating the equivalent metrics to those I obtained above for JIM. But looking at SVS’s 2018 accounts filed at companies house they looked to be worth about £3m, with turnover of £40m and profit of £288,000 ?.

By comparison HL has a £10Bn market cap, £86Bn+ assets under management, 1 million+ clients, about 1,200 employees and made £290 million in profit in 2018 - quite a bit of it from me !.

Confess I personally feel reassured by these HL figures. They are as they say “re-assuringly expensive” !.

You must come to your own conclusion about Jarvis, you can find all of the data online with a bit of googling !.

ATB

Pref


#1171

I wonder what the financial situation was at Beaufort before it (key staff) was found by the US prosecutors and FCA… to commit a securities fraud and a money laundering conspiracy?
(I don’t know but also don’t recall any concerns about it)

Similarly, few looking at the complex accounts of MF Global 8+ years back (and they were a big company)… would have known anything about their borrowing, internal repos and exposure to Eurozone debt as their investments, accounts, and transactions lacked full disclosure and transparency (so the investigation found).

Sometimes a company with a simple and understandable business model that is demonstrably profitable over a few years, without many client complaints building up (again as FCA site will show) might be a better bet than some large company, involved in lots of different and complex activities.

Even that won’t help though if key people engage in big-time fraud.


#1172

Hi Bernie

Fairly sure but getting the correct ticker for it is proving troublesome, SVSL maybe.

From their website

SVS Securities Plc. Registered in England and Wales no. 04402606. Registered Office: Princes Court, 7 Princes Street, London, EC2R 8AQ. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority, Firm No. 220929. A Member of the London Stock Exchange and a HM Revenue & Customs Approved ISA Manager. © Copyright 2019 SVS Securities PLC. All rights reserved."

The following article also implies they are AIM listed

Link to svs website which states they are LSE listed.

https://svssecurities.com/

ATB

soi


#1173

Hi @J_Westlock, I agree that fraud is a major concern and quite likely a significant contributor in these broker failures. But it seems to me that these brokers are operating on wafer thin margins and relying on high trading volumes and client numbers to turn a profit. Must be significant requirements to spend on the IT platform too I would think.

Speaking totally personally I wouldn’t be happy holding a large portfolio with a small company like Jarvis, but that’s just risk averse old me talking. Someone with a smaller portfolio and who trades more often and wants lower trading costs might make for a different decision. No right or wrong answer here just a decision based on your personal needs and circumstances I think.

I think that you are with AJ Bell and Saxo and possibly others too from previous conversations ?. Those are all big and reassuring players, as are Fidelity, Barclays, IG and Interactive Brokers too I think. So plenty of choices out there.

ATB

Pref


#1174

Yes… and Charles Stanley Direct and HL (in terms of ones I can trade in)… after this April I will be opening up in a new broker too… maybe an IG ISA.

If CS went under… that would be of major issue to me… and difficult to move ‘cos of charges… personally I plan to diversify as much as I can… within limits!


#1175

There is a small mention in Sunday Times.
Businesses and money section page 2.
I read that and thought only 60 employees they are very small.
Just logged on here and see Jarvis smaller that’s a surprise.
Seems they are on the verge.
I’d say that’s better news as if fraud or the like guess would of been closed immediately.
I do not know how to copy and post that article others wise would have.
All got something to learn and think about here.
Thanks everyone.


#1176

I once tried to find out if you could by shares in them was not able to.