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Brexit Wars 3

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#22801

Contrary to your delusions, the guidance of the referendum was not simply “IN/OUT” - we were guided and advised (and terrorised) into voting IN A REFORMED EUROPE - Or - OUT. Not “IN THE SAME OR WORSE EU” and not “OUT WITH A BEGGING DEAL”. Dozens of statements from Cameron advising the public to vote IN a reformed Europe (which he repeatedly failed to achieve fully).


#22802

The Referendum Bill 2015 - 16 was explicitly clear that the referendum outcome was not binding. Whatever David Cameron said did not change or make law.

Frog in a tree


#22803

Here’s some of Cameron statements preceding the referendum and pleading with the public to vote Remain in a REFORMED Europe.

"
The first EU summit after David Cameron won an unexpected majority in the UK general election. The summit ended up being dominated by the migrant crisis and Greek debt crisis. But Mr Cameron used the meeting - made up of all the EU’s heads of state - to formally set out his aims. Speaking after it, he said he was delighted the process of “reform and renegotiation” of the UK’s membership of the EU was “properly under way”.

“At the same time as the bill made its parliamentary journey, Mr Cameron was seeking approval from other EU leaders for the reforms he wants to achieve before the referendum can take place.”

“Some thought this would be the summit that Mr Cameron sealed the deal with his EU counterparts, but that turned out to be a bit premature. Instead EU leaders had their first “frank” discussions about the UK requests including Mr Cameron’s attempts to convince sceptical EU leaders to accept his plans to limit benefits for migrants - one of the key sticking points in the renegotiations. European Council President Donald Tusk said the discussions should “pave the way” for a deal by February.”

“And the Cabinet agreed that the government’s position will be to recommend that Britain remains in a reformed European Union.”

“Whether to remain in a reformed European Union – or to leave.”

“I am the first to say that there are still many ways in which Europe needs to improve – and that the task of reforming Europe does not end with yesterday’s agreement.”

“The question is will we be safer, stronger and better off working together in a reformed Europe or out on our own. I believe we will be safer in a reformed Europe, because we can work with our European
partners to fight cross border crime and terrorism.”

“I believe Britain will be stronger in a reformed Europe”

"And I believe we will be better off in a reformed Europe "

“Let me be clear. Leaving Europe would threaten our economic and our national security.”

“Our plan for Europe gives us the best of both worlds.”

“But our special status also means we are out of the parts of Europe that don’t work for us.
So we will never join the euro, we will never be part of eurozone bailouts, never be part of the passport-free no borders area, or a European army or an EU superstate.”

"The biggest danger to the European Union comes not from those who advocate change, but from those who denounce new thinking as heresy. In its long history Europe has experience of heretics who turned out to have a point.

And my point is this. More of the same will not secure a long-term future for the Eurozone. More of the same will not see the European Union keeping pace with the new powerhouse economies. More of the same will not bring the European Union any closer to its citizens. More of the same will just produce more of the same - less competitiveness, less growth, fewer jobs.

And that will make our countries weaker not stronger.

That is why we need fundamental, far-reaching change."

"Because with courage and conviction I believe we can deliver a more flexible, adaptable and open European Union in which the interests and ambitions of all its members can be met.

With courage and conviction I believe we can achieve a new settlement in which Britain can be comfortable and all our countries can thrive."

"But my recommendation is clear.

I believe that Britain will be safer, stronger and better off in a reformed European Union."

“It is time for the British people to have their say,” he said. “It is time to settle this European question in British politics. I say to the British people: this will be your decision.”

“And when we have negotiated that new settlement, we will give the British people a referendum with a very simple in-or-out choice to stay in the EU on these new terms; or come out altogether. It will be an in/out referendum.”



#22804

I’m hardly deluded. I just quoted the law with a proper accredited source.

Anyway, it was three and a half years ago nearly and all the leave majority are now dead and have been replaced by younger more sensible Remain voters coming onto the electoral role.

IMHO,

SBK


#22805

No matter what the government is legally obliged to do or don’t, the government will do what it wants. If we do not like it we vote them down on the next elections. For example I was not particularly supporting invading Iraq but it happened. Cameron on many occasions said there would be no way back from a NO vote trying to polarise people and to make it clear how serious this referendum was.

Secondly if you are looking into people’s motives there is what people were guided and advised to do before the referendum. And the government’s advice was to vote to Remain inside a reformed EU.

Finally your attitude sucks for claiming people are dead - you must be foaming at the mouth and have no way to express yourself other than with such vile statements. Shame on you.


#22806

Liar Cameron also promised that he would stay on as PM whatever the Referendum result. Instead he packed his bags pronto leaving the country to ruin itself.

Imagine…believing a politician. Cameron’s only goal was to destroy UKIP.

IMHO,

SBK


#22807

You mean they are not dead? The fact is that 640,000 people die in the UK each year. Two thirds of over 65s were leave voters who tend to be the first out of the door by a long chalk. Do the maths on that and multiply it by the time since the Referendum. The 1.4 Million leave majority was cancelled out by last Christmas and more given that they have been replaced by at least as many younger Remain supporters (who are so inclined by 80+ %).

According to my more detailed calculations Leave voters are perishing at a rate of 1,500 per day pro rata to Remain voters. Day after day, inexorably.

Facts are never vile. They are neutral. They are just facts.

IMHO,

SBK


#22808

Akis,

Nobody is wanting anyone to die but it is reasonable to consider the effect of mortality on the 2016 Referendum outcome given that Leave voters were predominantly over the age of 55. You can bet your bottom dollar that politicians and the likes of Cummings are doing exactly the same calculations.

Frog in a tree


#22809

Again the most vile posts wishing the most venerable of society DEAD get plastered over ii investment forums, how the remoaners are allowed to post wishing fellow investors loved ones dead is beyond me.
Disgusting and should result in a instant Ban.

Posts should be flagged for admins attention imho


#22810

Fiat,

Indeed, presumably no-one wishes most people any serious harm, though there are always exceptions.
Personally speaking, I can imagine far worse thoughts than both the UK & US badly in need of a “grassy knoll” kind of event a lá Dallas 22/11/63, or McVey dangling from a lamppost. Just a thought, mind.

Many people have no doubts that the scheming Johnson is wholly serious about forcing the UK into a hard Brexit as long as he believes it furthers his political interests & wins him a future GE. That’s presuming the Brexit Party stands down in the event of No-Deal.

IMO, there’s still a significant risk that if the opposition aren’t more united & wise to any future last-minute underhand ruses from the Cummings camp, No-Deal can still happen. - Regards.


#22811

Mr Carpet clearly is unable to read and understand English. Given that he is restricted for abusive behaviour, perhaps he should be cautious about encouraging flagging activity?

Frog


#22812

SBUK - hi

So what?
The whole process to date has been based on it being binding!
Article 50 actually happened (passed by an overwhelming majority of MP’s)
The EU Withdrawal Act has enshrined it into UK law
Practical effect - it is binding now!
JAR
(typo edited)


#22813

I wonder then why the Labour/Lib/Scots remainers alliance don’t jump at the opportunity of an election, let the people vote the government they believe will handle the EU better, offer a second referendum or not even that, simply scrap Brexit and then BAU. Put their money in their mouths if they believe and claim that Johnson and Farage do NOT represent the majority of the British public. It is the first time I witness the leader of the opposition, the leader of any political party, RUNNING AWAY from an election, refusing to go to the public, what is this, if not sheer fascism.


#22814

Cameron advised me of nothing. I didn’t even speak with the man. I only saw the original legal part about it being none binding. That was my understanding at the time I voted along with millions of others.


#22815

Someone must have tampered with your ballot because mine said nothing like the above.


#22816

You did not know of the PM’s official guidance on Europe and the once-in-a-generation referendum? Did you vote, and if yes, how could you not have researched the PM’s guidance?


#22817

You have been shown to be 100% incorrect. Why go on about it … oh I get it. You are a rabid brexiteer that will argue anything and disregard facts and the truth to get what you want.


#22818

Akis, if I remember rightly, in the past you were an apologist for the Greek generals who ran Greece after a coup. Perhaps that’s where you should be looking for you model of fascism? Or maybe the clearly racist/xenophobic tone of the UKIP and Cummings Leave campaigns?

I think that you are pushing it in your claim that Corbyn is some sort of fascist.

Frog in a tree


#22819

Guidance vs ballot paper. Ballot said “IN” and I was advised repeatedly by the government that meant “IN a Reformed EU”. Dozens of speeches by Cameron talking about his “reformed” EU which we should vote “IN”. Of course by that time Cameron had already failed to get a deal, hence the referendum. His advice practically was “vote to stay in the reformed EU, which I have just failed to … reform”.

If you ask me I cannot understand how in a democratic country we get to vote in/out the EU but never been asked to vote “in/out Iraq” !!!


#22820

Wasn’t in the country mate. Never heard anything about any guidance from anyone, just filled out my postal ballot - along with 20% of other voters.

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