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Brexit Wars 3

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#2244

A typical and blatant far right lie designed to scapegoat foreigners and, I trust, parroted by you thoughtlessly rather than maliciously.

I suggest you correct what you wrote before any remaining credibility you have evaporates totally.


#2245

You Ignore the point as usual… I was saying that IF migrants are here doing basic jobs like deliveries and they are hard workers happy to work long hours for low wage.
No matter if its right that has been allowed and encouraged by the Government for years. It is a huge benefit to all businesses who use those services…

If we force these ppl to leave, AND our young dont want to do that work OR demand pay rises etc it affects the competivity of all UK businesses at a time when we are being told we can leave and sell our products to the EU with tariffs and to the USA China India etc…


#2246

I agree with you. It is all about damage mitigation from here on. One thing that would help greatly would be if the GB pound regained some of its value.

Also, it still isn’t too late to save our Universities from competing at the top tier globally. Yes, they have had a serious set-back (which will very much damage our future participation in the ‘knowledge economy’), but given that even a degree course is 3 years and a doctorate 7 years I still believe this could be reversible and a return to growth achieved - especially if they simply stop including foreign students in the immigration cap.

Besides the curtailing of my own personal freedoms, I believe the damage done to this all-important sector is one of the very worst outcomes of the Brexit mentality which could exclude the UK from competing in the industries of the future.

I still find it hard to believe that we have stomped all over a growth industry (higher education) in which we were clearly second only to the USA in global terms and which is all important, so far as one can tell, for the industries of the future.


#2247

I meant to add to my first response that while I agree with this, over a number of years other countries will stumble in one way or another. This will enable the UK to regain some ground. The trick is not to fall too far behind by continually shooting ourselves in the feet.

Unfortunately, we have a bad habit of doing this, especially under Tory governments it seems. Major’s government dipped us into recession in the early 90s before any other country was hit by the on-coming global recession. That meant recovery was greatly prolonged because we were ahead of the global curve and therefore trading partners were not well placed to enable us to regain growth.


#2248

You want to jump from the cliff, land hard and then mount the parachute?


#2249

Not Hard is it ? Now whilst your little mate’s think i clean toilets for a living depriving hard working illegals of a job, They cannot accuse me of running Channel 4 ? So credibility restored ? Which BTW means so much coming from you…lol
Enjoy :wink:

Channel 4’s series” How to get a Council House” effectively demonstrates that the migrants get an upper hand when it comes to housing in the UK and on the other hand the British born people have to struggle on the waiting lists .

In one of the latest episodes we see how out of control EU migration is having a disastrous impact on Britain’s housing market. For instance a Romanian family of 7 ( 2 adults and 5 children) is shown arriving into the UK at Hounslow’s housing department demanding that they be housed, and after striving for a couple of weeks in front of the camera , waling and gaining sympathy they are then within 2 weeks housed in a 4 bedroom house in Birmingham at a cost to the tax payer of £750 per month! And in total will likely be in receipt of over £60k in benefits per year! (includes £25k cost for schooling 5 children).


#2250

The same old stories trotted out by the far right long before freedom of movement or even EU membership was a reality.

… and from someone who prides himself on avoiding propaganda from both sides.


#2251

FIAT - good afternoon.
What if we could maintain the level of overseas aid but still spend half of our current overseas aid outgoings on needy UK largely voluntary funded services?
Currently, three important UK services are only partially funded by the Government: The Royal National Lifeboat Institution, air ambulances and the hospice movement. All performing a vital service that I think should be state funded as they save UK lives and help dying cancer sufferers in their last (often very painful) period of life
Also we have a shortfall of funding of adult social care (estimated to be at £4.3 billion by 2020 - Kings Fund estimate).
If we halved the overseas aid budget (around £13.5 billion per year - and rising), we could fund all of the above (currently reliant in charity giving), from the savings.
We could then set up a national charity to let anyone who wants to increase the overseas aid payments back up to the current total. Obviously those who agree with overseas aid will readily give money to this cause. FIAT and others I know will give generously!
Sounds like a win / win scenario to me


#2252

Cutting and pasting again @broadmoor1? It isn’t being aired and I’m sure you wouldn’t be bothered to stream it… and the last series was out over 2 years ago.

Incidentally the show’s Producers said:
"
Contrary to what many people believe, and views frequently expressed on the programme, it was made clear immigrants have to go through exactly the same process as anyone else seeking a council house.
The show’s makers said 91% of council housing in the UK goes to people born in this country.
"

Further:
"
New migrants to the UK over the last five years make up less than two per cent of the
total of those in social housing. Some 90 per cent of those who live in social housing
are UK born. Most of the newly-arrived migrant group who occupy social tenancies
are refugees who have been granted permission to remain in the UK. This group is numerically small in relation to the total of social tenants in the UK. For example, LFS
analysis estimates that 19,200 Afghanistan-born persons were social tenants in the
third quarter of 2007, out of 10,337,300 total social tenants in the UK.
"
and
"
Analysis of social housing allocation policies showed no evidence that social housing
allocation favours foreign migrants over UK citizens. But there is a small amount of
evidence which suggests that they may, unintentionally, discriminate against ethnic
minority communities who may also have less understanding than
white groups, of their housing rights and housing allocation.
Social housing allocation policies differed in their content and method of allocating
points or bands. There were differences in how characteristics of applicants were
weighted by different local authorities, for example, some local authorities awarded
points for families with children who did not have use of a garden, while others did
not. Some policies, in particular banding systems, lacked transparency and were
rather difficult to understand.
Some local authority social housing allocation policies gave priority to certain
social characteristics, for example, to a local connection. This had the potential to
discriminate against migrants and longer settled ethnic minority communities,
who may have few relatives in the UK or a lesser period of settlement.
Overall, policies represented an attempt to prioritise the most needy at a time of
severe shortage in the supply of social housing. In this respect, the allocation policies
were fair. There was no evidence that allocation policies discriminated against white
groups.
"
source: https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/4_social_housing_allocation_and_immigrant_communities.pdf


#2253

You say the Millions were “moving across Europe towards UK”? How come only a handful arrived? Particularly difficult to understand if the Brexiteers lament is correct that the EU prevents the EU from protecting its borders? Or perhaps only a handful really wants to go to the UK?

The truth is more complex. People were at the hungarian border under horrible conditions and Germany decided to let them in. No politician stands pictures of people freezing in the dirt for very long. It is not easy to jude if the stream of people escaping from the war was really caused by Merkel or perhaps by bombs falling on your neighborhood? or perhaps it’s easy.

The truth is also that the French border police is holding people back in Calais. I wonder why they do that. They could just ask the UK to “take back control” of its border and let anyone who wants walk through the tunnel or embark a boat. Then lean back and see how the UK manages.

btw, people were escaping in many cases from russian bombs. Now it’s “funny” that the right wing across Europe blames Merkel for accepting refugees and hails Putin, but it was only with Putins help that these people could be forced to leave their homes. It was an intended side effect of his engagement in Syria to destabilize Europe with hundred thousands of refugees.

He is a smart intelligence agent: create a wave of refugees and finance right wing groups that spread xenophobia. Spread the virus that destroys Europe from inside. Brexiteers are doing Putins job… yet they consider themselves patriots. what a tragic joke.


#2254

was this the show from 2013…


#2255

I read that just teaching EFL was worth more to the UK than the fishing industry so its a big loss.


#2256

Since 15th June 2017 we can use our smartphones and mobile data tariffs across the EU without roaming fees. Great, right? Will Brits lose that advantage after leaving? I guess so, because it is imposed by the EU and if the UK leaves that regulation the companies are free to re-introduce the roaming fees for travellers from either direction.

I just thought to share that because it adds to the many things that will become worse for the UK while still waiting for the list of pros - besides vague “take back control” and that pseudo patriotic feelgood stuff.


#2257

Another thing that comes to my mind looking at this thread is that the Brexiteers advertised the soon to be expected falling apart of the EU and now it is the UK that looks like the last act of a Shakespeare play where everybody kills everybody… while the EU is watching and enjoying its popcorn.


#2258

EU Laws control
sewage on beaches, clean air, Landfill restrictions
Cheaper mobile phone calls, cheaper air travel,
Tax avoidance,
Workplace protection, equal pay
Spam emails,
Shape of bananas

All can be ignored and not enforced by the Tories…


#2259

Without going off track… this is little to do with being in or out of the EU. The UN set the 0.7% gross national income target for overseas aid (few nations meet that… including the US) and it’s implemented in law in most countries including UK.
I agree it’s worth a separate debate however.

It should also be noted that the RNLI isn’t the only lifeboat rescue organisation out there. The RNLI is the most well known and most heavily funded… you don’t see an RNLI station without the best equipment anymore. I agree that they should receive some state funding but it doesn’t seem entirely right somehow that anyone can voluntarily roam out to sea at their own risk and then expect the taxpayer to fund a service to get them out of trouble. The shipping industry (or insurance) should also be making a contribution.

Relating it back to Brexit… it’s a shame that almost every Forecast for all the Leaving EU scenarios leave the UK worse off and with a reduced GDP of what it could have been if we remained in the EU.
That would be better focusing on than the thin end of the wedge.
The more tax income we get into the UK the better and the more likely, the more able we will be to fund hospices and other such things.


#2260

Hi Frog equally a well written post however I take i take issue with you saying migration is a problem it’s not
My issue is that anyone who points out the challenges of unmanaged migration is accused of being racist
There are genuine issues and not discussing in an objective way causes extremists to grow
Look at Gordon Brown in Rochdale
I as floating voter blame all parties for not investing in doing Doctors and nurse training as it takes 10 years to train a GP ie 7 years plus GP training
Lots to sort out if we are going to manage migration at a level we can cope with


#2261

A I would never go into someone else country and try to tell them how to run it as it is not my business patronising arrogant and rude
As you have no right to vote why do you keep trying to interfere


#2262

Aren’t all migrants all homeless and therefore move up the list over existing UK citizens who are not homeless?

The point is we need to have the infrastructure and support genuine refugees


#2263

The reality is that the forecast do not include any gov intervention eg investment in infrastructure they are also over a 15 year period to make any meaningful number and each year equates to 0.19 percent massive not