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Brexit Wars 3

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#2264

Agree on the aging and social needs it’s a shame when Theresa May tried to address at the last election that Labour attacked her with no solution of their own
It really winds me up with all parties who say we are in opposition and don’t have to provide solutions- everyone can stand there criticising others


#2265

Nope we just use WiFi and Viber same as when I am in US or OZ


#2266

There you go half truths and polarised views I said we should help genuine refugees and have managed migration- typical


#2267

J not true in all circumstances both Bradford and Bolton who have large settled immigrant communities voted decisively for Brexit
What does that tell you?


#2268

To be fair you’ve almost hit the nail on the head, I would fully expect the EU to be sitting laughing, they certainly showed their true colours during the negotiations. And that’s just another reason for us to depart. They have completely undermined TM and left her position untenable, thinking we would be back begging.
They will find themselves short of £39bn come bonus time.


#2269

RRW,

I agree that EU freedom of movement work migration was essentially unmanaged. I think that successive governments have chosen a “free trade” model in a belief that the market is rational and that the supply of migrant workers would be efficiently managed by the demand for their services. To a large extent this has been successful since the EU migrant workers come here to work and earn money. As you say rightly, there has been a failure on the part of politicians to explain the role of migrant labour in our economy. However, all the explanation in the world wouldn’t make much difference to some people.

To some extent I agree with you that we have not trained enough doctors and nurses. In my view the recent ending of the nurse’s training bursary was a disasterous consequence of austerity as it means that nursing students accumulate a large pile of student debt which will have to be repaid from their rather modest wages. Madness!

Thinking around a corner for a moment, if we did divert many intelligent and capable young people into nursing and doctoring, then those people would not be able to serve in other parts of our economy and so would most likely lead to greater demand for migrant workers in those areas.

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#2270

As I recall it, the backlash to May’s plans for social care in the 2017 election came from Tories who did not agree that elderly care should primarily be funded from those persons’ lifetime assets. I didn’t have a problem with that particularly. Labour’s view, as I understand it was that the care should be state-funded and paid for by the capping of tax free inheritance allowances.

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#2271

not much other than clutching at straws…

Most Leave voters live in areas with very few immigrants.
9 of 10 areas with highest LEAVE vote in areas of low immigration…
Lambeth London 78% for remain. high immigration area.

Point is when people meet / live with migrants they lose fear and gain respect.
Our Media hyped up the Fear. Least trusted in Europe by a long way…

Nope we just use WiFi and Viber same as when I am in US or OZ

good for you but Roaming charges were a disgrace until the EU stopped them…


#2273

Err… no, not at all RRW.
I think it’s worth saying at this point that the word “migrant” is bandied about when people mean different things… it’s important as for each type there are different obligations and ways they are treated.

  1. Migrant - someone who’s moved from one place to another in order to live in another country for more than 1 year.
  2. Refugee - someone who’s fled persecution in another country and claims they are in need of protection. The definition of ‘refugee’ is in international law.
  3. Asylum seeker - someone who says they are a refugee and has claimed asylum in the UK but whose claim has not yet been concluded.

In or out of the EU… just as with almost any other country in the world… you need to be able to deal with refugees/asylum seekers. ie. that processing is something that will also have to happen just the same when/if we leave the EU.

So… “Migrants”… usually these are people who have either a job lined up already or are coming looking for work… or are international students.

Around 91% of all new social tenancies are taken up by UK-born citizens.
Migrants are more likely to rent in the private sector rather than be in social housing or buying a home… and that’s 3/4 of them in 2015.

Asylum seekers don’t qualify for council housing. If you have (official) Refugee status then you may be eligible for council housing subject to other criteria.
As EEA registered worker can also apply for council housing subject to other criteria. Note my past posts on this that it is something the UK chose to do by not invoking a particular EU Directive.

You can’t apply for a council home if you entered the UK unlawfully and have not been granted any leave to remain here or if you have overstayed your visa.

Noone jumps above others on the basis that they are a migrant.


#2275

More fake news…“when you leave a club you pays the bar bill” (Geoffrey Cox, Attorney General)


#2276

Arsanias, They can enjoy the popcorn , but they will buy it out of there existing kitty :wink:

No Deal, Leaves us with the £39bn to spend within the UK
An in-depth report on this debate, issued by the House of Lords, acknowledges that there are “competing interpretations” on what the UK should pay, but it reaches the conclusion that, because the European treaties do not say anything on the matter, there would be no enforceable obligation to make the UK pay any financial contribution at all.
The Lords has taken the view that Article 50 is in effect a “guillotine” and the UK would be free to walk away without any responsibilities should agreement not be reached.


#2277

As we can see, he is thick as two short planks on the £39billion.

Even if we were to refuse to pay then I would expect there would be some hard core response. His friend Nigel must be getting worried about whether his project will have put paid to his pension. Perhaps some prices are worth paying?

Frog


#2278

WOW
looks like the Facebook adds about Turkey Serbia Montenegro Iraq and Syria joining the EU did the trick they reached tens of millions of people after they should have stopped, they influenced huge numbers of voting decisions.

Brexit: Leave ‘very likely’ won EU referendum due to illegal overspending, says Oxford professor’s evidence to High Court
Exclusive: Analysis finds adverts reached ‘tens of millions of people’ in crucial days after spending limit breached – enough to change the outcome

Professor Philip Howard, director of the Oxford Internet Institute, at the university, said: “My professional opinion is that it is very likely that the excessive spending by Vote Leave altered the result of the referendum.
“A swing of just 634,751 people would have been enough to secure victory for Remain.


#2281

ouch yes easy to miss the dates…


#2282

“J not true in all circumstances both Bradford and Bolton who have large settled immigrant communities voted decisively for Brexit
What does that tell you?”

This is a big point RRW in terms of immigration, true not just of Bradford/Bolton but across all the major cities. And a reason for us to have remained part of the EU.


#2283

I will just chuck a Faragism in at this point…during the campaign he realised that there was a big amount of Commonwealth voters who might be sympathetic to Ramain but who were frustrated that EU citizens could move across our border freely whereas their families back home could not migrate to the UK without proof of family income above £30K. I once met a young Asian woman who was unable to bring in her husband from Pakistan as she earned less than £30K. Also, it is well documented that Asian restaurants are unable to bring in skilled chefs from the subcontinent because of immigration rules. Because of reasons like this, when Farage stated during the campaign that the immigration rules should not just favour EU workers over Commonwealth workers, this tapped in to dissatisfactions in the Asian communities. When I heard Farage saying this I knew what his game was.

Also, we might consider one other factor which is that with the wave of east European migrants there was an opportunity for Poles and others to open Polski shops to cater for the needs of the new migrant community. These new businesses were based in the areas of cheap accommodation that had been predominantly served by Asian grocery shops. Don’t forget that all communities are fearful of incomers and competition on their territory and Asians are no more immune in this respect than the native community.

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#2284

With all the EU workers leaving especially workers in the NHS and health workers, I read the Gov is going to allow more visas from our commonwealth.

We would be swapping EU workers for Portugal Spain Poland etc for ppl from Pakistan India etc. Maybe many with family ties here who will find ways to stay permanently.

Wonder do the Brexit voters realise that…


#2285

Agree on your points Frog and Pete, the population dynamic in the UK has never been with the Europeans. Apart from Farage, Johnson said in his propaganda ‘we’re going to have a points based system’ - here’s a newsflash for him - in terms of employment there has been such a system on immigration for the last 20 years at least. In case he also missed it the immigrants are already here and the doors may now be opened even wider with the referendum result.


#2286

The UK has made tentative steps for a trade agreement with India post Brexit…the Indian side aren’t too enthusiastic from what I read…and they have suggested that they want easier access to the UK for their citizens. So immigration looks likely to remain high (partly because we need a certain amount of migrant labour), it seems that we are just finding our migrant labour from somewhere else.

It’s the strength of the pound that will ‘probably’ influence skilled migrants…Brexit is doing a good job at discouraging them…unfortunately we ‘probably’ need those skills…at least in the short term until we get our act together & invest in training UK nationals better.

Brexit means…nothing is agreed :face_with_monocle:


#2287

Hi Oily but why would we want a trade agreement particularly with India? For the last 50/60 years they’ve flooded the UK with cheap cotton and synthetic textiles. Anything innovative they want our tech to make themselves and sell it back to us. And it’s third world so value added is not there. On the other hand if you had mentioned Germany I would endorse that.