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Brexit Wars 3

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lse:lloy
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#25464

A leader’s debate about climate change specifically.

I think we can safely say that the Tory message is one of climate change denial along with the Brexit party … and the far right generally.

They may well have under-estimated just how important this issue is to many voters, increasingly the younger ones and possibly the one thing that will motivate them above all else to get out to vote when the time comes.


#25465

JD - good morning

You mean as opposed to a hard-left, pacifist, terrorist-loving, anti-semitic condoning, indecisive, liar (proved by firstly saying nobody earning less than £80,000 per year but having to admit people earning £14,000 per year would face higher taxes).
Any idea to whom I am referring?
JAR


#25466

John,

There are a few individuals who embrace some of that poison who come to mind, but all of them associated with the right & far-right. Some of these include those who support State-sanctioned terrorism, whether directly or by proxy.

Your trolling on ii is admittedly not as obvious as some others, but it’s still transparent. I note that you rarely explain the false claims you often regurgitate from right-wing sites (presumably, as you can’t explain them or back them up), nor do you answer questions that others put to you.

For example, there is a litany of VG questions that JW has kindly put to you on a few occasions about your support for Brexit. We’re still waiting for your answers, beyond the dirge you regurgitate from right-wing propaganda sites.

I need to leave my desk a while, so here’s hoping that you may reflect on your trolling tendencies, cut them out & start contributing to the debate more positively. - Regards.


#25467

JD - hi,

Thanks for the information.
Actually, I don’t visit ‘right-wing propaganda sites’ m8’. I happily admit that all my thoughts and posts are my own (with a bit of help reading the Telegraph occasionally)
JAR
:roll_eyes:


#25468

John - What is wrong with being a pacifist? You always stick that bit into your general trolling and misrepresentation of Corbyn.
Why wouldn’t you want a leader who is opposed to war?
Incidentally, Corbyn was one of the few politicians who campaigned against the “war” in Iraq and was proven 100% correct on his reasons for not entering into the conflict.
If he’d been listened to then more UK servicemen would be alive today… and a few million more innocent Iraqi civilians.


#25469

JW - hi

Nothing at all m8
The problem is that as PM he may have to authorise war, special forces lethal action against terrorists (something he pointedly refused to say he would do in the Andrew Neill interview), keep Trident up to date and ensure enough resources go to our armed forces.
As a great one for ‘odds’, what are the odds on that happening?
JAR
:innocent:


#25470

And now the reality of what Corbyn has said (April 2018, BBC News):

The best defence for Britain is a government actively engaged in seeking political solutions to the world’s problems," he said in a speech to the Chatham House think tank before last year’s general election.

"This doesn’t make me a pacifist. I accept that military action, under international law and as a genuine last resort, is in some circumstances necessary.

“But that is very far from the kind of unilateral wars and interventions that have almost become routine in recent times.”

Pushed afterwards for examples of military action he thought had been justified, he said: "I doubt many, if any, in this room would have questioned the legitimacy, ultimately, of the Second World War.

“Because of the catastrophe that had approached by the rise of the Nazis all across Europe to that point. And so I think there has to be, ultimately, that preparedness to use military force.”

On the other hand, he said “many” would have questioned the legitimacy of the First World War.

In more recent times, he said British forces had done “great” peacekeeping work in Cyprus and he praised the “incredible work done by the Royal Marines and others in helping refugees to survive” in the Mediterranean.

One military action he gave unequivocal backing to was the UN-backed intervention in East Timor in 1999, when troops were sent in to quell violence after a UN-sponsored referendum showed overwhelming support for independence from Indonesia.

The Labour leader said he had been a UN observer at the East Timor referendum "which had come at the end of an appalling civil war that had gone on for decades, in which tens of thousands of people had lost their lives.

“And that UN intervention, to enforce the ceasefire, by and large worked.”


#25471

This has been the EU rule for donkey’s years but it is never enforced. Their rules are only applied when they suit.


#25472

Gove turned up at ITV asking to be allowed to join the LEADERS debate with BOJOs dad
clear the Tories see Bojo as a liability but only having Gove a daddy left shows what a state they are in…
as the farmer said
went to bed as Great Britain woke up Little Britain

can any Tory voters really be proud of the party even if they are desperate for some face saving Brexit deal.


#25473

The BBC is the closest thing to an objective broadcaster you are ever going to get. I hear a lot of whinging from both sides about it when it reports (or doesn’t report) items of news that people don’t like. However, you simply aren’t going to get anything better, the alternatives will only be worse.

For once Frog, I agree with you.


#25474

I’ve heard so much b******s spoken about climate change in this campaign. The simple fact is this, if Labour was really serious about climate change they would be proposing the introduction of carbon taxes, the only thing that will change behaviour. The fact that they are not tells you everything you need to know about what a total bunch of charlatans this Labour party actually is. I’m not denying the seriousness of the issue, I’m not denying the lack of a credible Tory response to it either. I’m simply saying it sticks in my craw to hear grumpy grandpa telling us its a climate change manifesto when he’s ducking the real issue.


#25475

Hence my surprise when someone quoted them recently. I thought they were mixed up with the Eurozone rules, but no, there they are in black and white. For what they are worth.

I don’t believe they’ve ever been ‘enforced’ by the way. I could be wrong.


#25476

Don’t look now, but behaviour is changing without carbon taxes. So not such a simple fact at all, in reality. There is more than one way to skin a cat.


#25477

Nice to see someone talking about policies for a change (other than the grumpy grandpa remark anyway).

As you read it cover to cover, you’ll know that they are proposing hitting corporations with a tax rather than individuals.

"
At the launch of Labour’s manifesto, Jeremy Corbyn announced a radical plan to tax oil and gas companies to fund the Green Industrial Revolution.

The Labour leader said “it isn’t fair to heap the cost of the climate emergency onto the nurse, the builder or the energy worker” so under Labour “the big oil and gas corporations that profit from heating up our planet will shoulder the burden and pay their fair share”.

The next Labour government will create a Just Transition Fund, paid for by a new windfall tax on these corporations. The Fund will, in particular, provide an expected £11 billion support package for nearly 37,000 oil and gas workers, the 126,000 people in jobs dependent on the sector and their communities to make the transition to a clean economy.
"


#25478

ICE ICE BABY: The £950 ice sculptures dripping in for Johnson and Farage were a “visual metaphor,” Channel 4 News’ editor Ben de Pear told us (thanks Ben, I think we got it). In truth the stunt – and Michael Gove’s “storming” of the studios with his own video crew – made sure none of the headlines about last night’s debate were actually about climate change. Like a posh student half-heartedly trying to argue his way past the nightclub bouncers, Gove demanded he be allowed on TV to argue the Tories’ case. To add to the madness, Stanley Johnson turned up asking to be let on as well. “They were lovely and charming but neither are the leader,” said De Pear. Afterwards the Tories wrote to Ofcom to complain, accusing C4 of “conspiring with Jeremy Corbyn” – and even threatened to review the broadcaster’s remit. A Conservative source told BuzzFeed News: “If we are re-elected, we will have to review Channel 4’s public service broadcasting obligations.”

Of course Ch4 were perfectly entitled to refuse a Tory substitution for its leaders’ debate. Johnson was invited equally with the others and Gove and Stanley Johnson were not. I think that the Tories declined the invite because of Johnson’s chronic foot in mouth disease and then kicked up when the ice statue substitution made quite an impact on the public and so…and so… we get more bullying and threats.

Goodto hear on the news that Johnson was tackled about an article he wrote a few years ago criticising single mothers. A single mother challenged on this on the basis that he has had about five children out of wedlock. Didn’t he ever to think that the responsible thing to do might be to wear a condom?

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#25479

A very good point!
I had been thinking it was a little unfair asking Johnson personal questions like “How many children do you have?” as once again, he refused to answer at a Press Conference today… but given the comments he’s made in the past then it is perfectly legitimate (unlike some of his children… allegedly).

He comes from a long line of Tory senior figures with secret offspring hidden away… sometimes from their own (latest) family.


#25480

JW - hi

Fine … if you (and FIAT), want to believe him that’s up to you m8
I stick by my definition of Comrade Corbyn
JAR


#25481

FIAT - hi

Maybe they could do the BBC at the same time?
JAR
:innocent:


#25482

You are entitled to JAR, as I am to stick to my view that Johnson is irredeemably racist based on the things he has said and written. The reality is that he condemns himself out of his own mouth.

All the best,

Frog in a tree


#25483

Where the Parties stand on policies towards farm animals: