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Brexit Wars 3

lse:hsba
lse:lloy
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#25504

Hi JW,

Much agree & proof of it is ample. If we forget Corbyn briefly, let’s take Ed Miliband. Ed was in fact a fairly moderate Labour leader, not untypical of many Social Democrat politicians elected all over the EU. Little about him was that radical. He cared more about protecting UK’s economy & free markets than do arrant liars & Brexiteer ideologues like Johnson & Gove.

The principled Miliband strongly refused to gamble with UK’s future prosperity on any grounds. He rejected appeasing extreme populism for political gain. However, he also wanted to see a greater alignment between social responsibility & the free market. Admirable goals.

The RW media’s ceaseless twisting of facts & caricatures of Ed Miliband were always accompanied by slogans such as, “Red Ed”, often with false references to a Communist Father, who they alleged may have once spied for the Soviet Union. All lies & proven to be so, with an agenda to mislead the gullible. However, significant damage to reputations was done as the dim swallowed the garbage gleefully & regurgitated it to their dimmer associates.

It’s a wonder that some are even given the vote, let alone Referendums on complex issues. That said, the gutter-press in the UK really are that. They’d take some beating by comparison for spreading lies, hate & division. There are no parallels anywhere in the EU or across much of the free world.

Elsewhere, the press have at least some responsibility to report factually & to avoid gross distortion. Here? Freedom of the press seems to equate to also lying blatantly, be it often by omission, & with very little consequence for any damage done. That suits the status quo.

As the RW media here dominates, it’s no wonder that we’ve not had a real left-wing government in UK since the era of Harold Wilson. Seriously. Yet all blame for the UK’s problems is directed at the left-wing or the EU. That almost sums up the sad state of things here over recent decades. - Regards.


#25505

true but many are just nice old ppl not taken in by Brexit not your typical zombie and I have talked to a few if those
but as I said labour need to face up to the image these folks have been fed of corbyn such that they will not vote labour…


#25506

Quite right.
Anyone who doubts that every Labour leader is subject to the same victimisation, misrepresentation and abuse might want to remember that…

4+ years ago:

At least the famous Sun front page picture of a Labour leader the last time an election was this close made Neil Kinnock look vaguely normal. On Wednesday, the tabloid uses almost half of its front page to show Ed Miliband looking as though he is having a heart attack while eating a bacon sandwich.
“Don’t swallow his porkies and keep him OUT” is the message.
If reading the more rightwing papers over the last few weeks has been a bit like receiving daily earbashings from an increasingly hysterical man on a street corner, now he is waving his arms in your face shouting “The end is nigh”.

Source: https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2015/may/06/sun-ed-miliband-labour-mail-telegraph-election


#25507

Well, they’ve been taken in by lies about the Labour Party though… haven’t they?

You said: " we cant have Corbyn all the big companies will leave we will be bankrupt I hear it all the time in Portugal and UK with almost no one arguing against. except me I usually say “what could be worse than what we have now”"

  • ALL the big companies won’t leave the UK. In fact, none will.
  • No, the UK can’t become bankrupt. At worst, too much badly thought through borrowing would mean the UK’s credit rating is lowered which potentially leads on to severe economic impacts.
    There’s usually a large disparity between what is promised in Manifestos and what happens when a Government comes to power and has to face hard realities rather than seek votes.

Why don’t you point out the various lies that have been made about Labour Party policy?

I usually find that people come out with such crap because they think they are the popular views as that’s what all the Media tell them. Once they start to be corrected time and time again then they shut up as they are simply embarrassing themselves and look twats. They’ll probably retort back something like “I didn’t know you were a Commie” or the like but then you know you’ve stopped their shite.


#25508

pete - hi

So, what image should they be ‘fed’ of Corbyn?
JAR
typo edited


#25509

JW
I agree with all of those points and I would point them out, but it is usually a situation where the ppl I am talking with are so panicked and incited its not easy to carry on with discussion as it would become an argument often with someone I like…
and I am not a labour supporter only really behind them because they have agreed to another referendum which will kill off this fraud…

Just seen this on twitter a lot saying similar…

Holding my nose in #high peak and voting labour .
There really had better be a 2nd referendum


#25510

Yep… I get the same… but if they bring it up and then come out with lies then I’m happy to correct them.
I’m not a Labour Party Supporter either, never voted for them… and don’t particularly like several of their policies but it don’t stop me calling out people who try to smear, lie and misrepresent… friends or not.


#25511

SBK has been silent this week. I hope he is well. Meanwhile @arsanias has been silent since the election was declared. Perhaps he has to observe election purdah?

Frog in a tree


#25512

Typical Johnson performance on Marr. Just keep talking and avoid answering the questions. Is this someone we really want as PM?

Frog


#25513

Hi Fiat,

The former mentioned is probably making preparations to emigrate. Looming risk of a hard Brexit, pushed through by a strongly right-wing Tory government if the liar wins, makes that a sensible option for those who want to & can escape the toxic atmosphere.

Also possibly, though I’m speculating here & hopefully I’m wrong, it may be that IG debt collectors are chasing him up & down the UK. I was going to start off a “Go Fund Me” site on behalf of Knealing, even gladly chipping in a generous 50p to kick things off, but I wouldn’t want to hurt his pride. :wink:

Arsanias may well just be taking a break from the thread as he seemed singularly unimpressed with the amount of pro-Brexit trolling. I refer to those who merely parrot right-wing propaganda, whilst ignoring any data that indicates that Brexit will have an adverse effect on UK’s economy & be to our collective loss.

On a more serious note, it’s encouraging to see the gap getting smaller in the latest opinion polls. I’m still banking on a large, if not an unprecedented turnout from younger voters on 12/12. If that happens, I think the outcome may be far closer than many imagined.

The message to the idealistic young must be: ignore the polls that indicate that BJ has it in the bag. They did the same with Brexit (ie. before the Referendum, all polls had it as a lost cause) & ditto with 2017’s GE when polls showed a convincing majority for May. If younger voters come out, I believe this lunacy can be stopped. - Regards. Edit: typo.


#25514

FIAT - good morning

I assume your answer is no? The alternative is therefore a better option then?

On an earlier post, I asked if anyone wanted to list Comrade Corbyn’s good attributes and recently asked:
So, what image should they be ‘fed’ of Corbyn? (by the media).
No response to either post - as expected

Maybe you or any other Groupie might like to list what would make Corbyn a good PM?
JAR
:innocent:


#25515

Hello JAR,

If you had been paying attention you would know that I am not a Corbyn fan. I do, however, consider that he is less of a risk to our country than Johnson and his hard Brexit.

Frog


#25516

Hi Jack,

The high rates of registration of young voters is an eoncouraging sign but it may not be enough. If these registering young voters are concentrated in university towns and prosperous Remain voting areas they may not make much of a difference. A question also arises as to whether the opinion polling methodologies are capturing the view of young voters. Still, in a small number of marginals they may tip the balance against the Tories.

I just checked

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

…to see what the state of opinion on the question on “if there was another referendum”. It would seem that the small lead for Remain has gone and according to the latest summary that opinion is split 50/50 so there is no majority for either. Demographically this is interesting as the higher death rates among Leave voters and their replacement by younger voters is not translating into a growing lead for Remain. Is this because Leave is winning the argument or because of fatigue and a desire to get the thing over with? We will all have our own opinions on this. Assuming this shift in opinion is accurately recorded than we might expect the change to benefit the Tories.

Frog in a tree


#25517

FIAT - hi

Bojo doesn’t have a ‘hard Brexit’ as a policy. You (and the Groupies), don’t want ANY form of Brexit - do you?
So are, presumably, happy to have a hard-left, pacifist, terrorist-loving, antisemitism-condoning, indecisive liar as PM.
No risks there then…
JAR
:roll_eyes:


#25518

Usual bo//ocks there from you JAR.

Frog


#25519

FIAT - hi
Forensic logic and detailed reasoning … as always
JAR
:rofl:


#25520

@J_Westlock
I haven’t read all the thread so forgive me if this has already been asked…

It seemed to me during the Brexit campaign Corbyn felt he was bound by a duty to support Remain, when it was clear to all that he didn’t personally support that proposal.

I think that damaged his credibility. Why do you think he stated a position then but now feels that not declaring a position is valid?

He’d have been better off sticking with his genuine views as he has done staunchly with so many other views, even when he knows they will leave him open to political attack and may not be vote winning.

That at least would have projected an admirable integrity whether you agreed with him or not, in my opinion. Politicians who are seen to have integrity will attract votes from many places, even when voters disagree with specific policies.


#25521

Eadwig, the reality of the situation is that Corbyn can’t declare in favour of a Brexit position because that is not the view of the majority of the membership. It also explains why his performance as leader during the referendum campaign was so weak. In my view if he had thrown his weight behind Remain then Brexit would not have happened. His days as leader are numbered.

Frog in a tree


#25522

Eadwig - good morning

Because most of his Shadow Cabinet, MPs and party are 'Remainers.
Why do you think he stated a position then but now feels that not declaring a position is valid?
He is still trying to con the ‘Leave’ Labour supporters to vote Labour
Not rocket science m8.

JAR


#25523

I don’t think there is any con about it. If he has the power he will arrange a leave deal and then heavily support it in any referendum to confirm it.