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Brexit Wars 3

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#25524

Eadwig - hi

So he’s lying now when he has said he will remain neutral in any referendum?
JAR


#25525

And your opinion on your party leader’s serial lying, JAR?

Frog


#25526

If that is what he said then obviously his support for the leave deal wont be as open as I stated. It will be known and present though, inevitably,


#25527

That isn’t the case. At two conferences now they have agreed on their Brexit stance… at the last they agreed to back holding a 2nd Referendum after seeking a deal with the EU.
Also, at the last, the party voted against a motion which would have seen Labour backing Remain in any future referendum.

If you meant that most Labour voters/supporters voted to Remain then that is probably true but not among Labour Party members.

As I’ve said before, don’t forget that Brexit splits the support of ALL the main Parties… including the Lib Democrats where 1/3 of their voters also voted for Brexit.


#25528

@J_Westlock,

You may remember that this was how the Conference decided the matter using a rather dubious show of hands where Jennie Formby over-ruled the Chair. There should have been a counted vote.

There is of course a question as to whether delegates to conference are accurately reflective of members’ views. Given the strength of the hard left Momentum in the constituency parties it is likely that there are a disproportionate number of Lexiters among the delegates.

This article might give a better idea of the views of the membership.

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#25529

Yes I do remember it and it’s the usual Conference farce with the Labour Party.
However the Chair got the words wrong not understanding whether to say carried or not as she said later… she wasn’t overruled at all… they asked for hands to be raised again (as the footage shows) and it was crystal clear that they voted against a motion which would have seen Labour backing Remain in any future referendum.
So THEY DID vote against that motion and frankly it was always going to be thus given the votes that the Unions bring to Conference.

As I keep saying… and you keep ignoring… ALL the Parties have millions of voters who voted both For and Against Brexit.
Some Leaders choose to ignore their supporters and pretend they all think the same way when they don’t… like the Tories and the Lib Dems… whilst one other wants to allow the People to have a vote again on it.


#25530

Andrew Lewin, the founder of Remain Labour, said the vote represented the “grassroots against the party machine - and the machine won”.

As I said, the Conference vote was hardly a clear vote of party members against campaigning on a Remain platform.

You say that all parties have supporters who supported both Remain and Leave. That is a statement of the bleedin’ obvious and hardly requires a response. It is estimated that around two thirds of Labour supporters voted Remain.

There can be little doubt that the same demographic factors cut across Labour and cut across the Tories in that older voters in both parties were more likely to vote Leave than Remain. A lot is made of midlands and northern Labour constituencies which voted Leave and some like to think that the majority of Labour voters in these areas are Brexiters. My guess is that in these depressed areas there would still have likely been a majority of Labour supporters for Remain but still enough Leave support to top up the Tory Leave vote.

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#25531

FIAT - hi

All politicians lie m8
Its a ‘sine qua non’ for the job
Those that do it best … are successful
JAR
(text added)
:laughing:


#25532

JW - hi

And continue to ‘sit on the fence’ for as long as possible (or at least until it can get the ‘Leave’ Labour people to believe the cr@p about negotiating a ‘better’ leave deal and vote Labour in the election).
JAR


#25533

Thank you for your feedback on my post JAR!

Frog


#25534

The vast majority of the British public do not care about so -called antisemitism in the Labour Party. Only the pro zionist members of the Jewish community will be losing sleep over this issue. The more the extremist Chief Rabbi, a Johnson stooge, bleats the more sympathy will drain away from the Jewish community. If the general British public have any views on the Jewish community at all it is the usual pejorative stereotyping.

Islamophobia is, however, a very active phenomena amongst Joe Public for obvious reasons. It is the 99.999% of law abiding decent Muslims that deserve our sympathy. It will be a long haul for them.

We need to move towards a completely atheist society ASAP. First step: all religion to be banned in schools, second step Church and State to be separated at all levels, third step all houses/organizations of religion to pay taxes on their income.

IMHO,

SBK


#25535

I have been away on business, saving the country. Though I don’t know why I bother.

IMHO,

SBK


#25536

Buying stock for SBK Poundstore I presume?

Cheers,

Frog


#25537

And there we have it. The adoration of the English voter for the best liar, in a country which prefers to lie to itself about its great past and future.

Talking of big liars I think Trump is coming here next week to pollute our atmosphere. No doubt the red carpet will be rolled out for that moron again. How low this country has sunk.

IMHO,

SBK


#25538

I have to disagree with that.

definition of atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Whatever it is that I am, doesn’t require drawing on an understanding of mythical beings to define. So I deny that I am atheist, if asked.


#25539

Sadly JAR’s attitudes demonstrate what is wrong with our politics and why public trust has been so seriously eroded. Johnson’s lies are manifest and well documented. All politicians use hyperbole and exagerations and perhaps Corbyn does too but Johnson’s lying is on another scale altogether. As we see, Tory party member of JAR approves of Johnson lying to you and me and the people of our country.

As for Corbyn, he wears his heart on his sleeve and you may not approve of his defence of the Guildford Four…but they were later proved innocent in court. Corbyn also called the Iraq War as likely to seed further war and terrorism and make us all a lot less safe…and was he right? Well, yes of course he was.

Anyone who supports Johnson supports the use of the deception of the public in our political discourse. Shame on them!

Frog in a tree


#25540

#25541

Eadwig,

Yes but your argument is entirely based on you being an argumentative Yorkie twatneck, a type which there is ample evidence for.

But we will still let you join our gang and help us pick on oilie and bully him until he rings the Samaritans.

IMHO,

SBK


#25542

No I’m not!


#25543

SBUK - hi

Agree m8
A company I worked for had a distribution depot in Yorkshire that I had to visit.
Always a depressing experience as the people were somewhat ‘argumentative’ - well actually all the time!
JAR