Brexit Wars 3



and what the f*** is wrong with THAT??


FIAT - good morning

Corbyn doing his bit to support his suspect terrorist mates

I guess you support him in this ?


John - Grasping at straws again?

Reality is that the Tory Government scrapped one of the tools that judges had when it came to dangerous convicted criminals (including convicted terrorists) by removing the ability to use indeterminate sentencing to protect the public.

The Tory Government has also been reducing the resources that supervise released prisoners who are clearly dangerous.

The Tories have blood on their hands.


typical and disgusting that bojo uses this issue against the victim’s family wishes and then uses the well known WHATABOUT to blame labour laws
Tories have been on power 9 years


The view from the USA
this is how bad it is



pete - good morning
quote=“petethenovice, post:25547, topic:1145436”]
The quantity of your posts seems to have fallen lately m8.
However, it’s good to see the quality has been maintained at your usual (low), standard.


One of the weirdest things going on in the universe at this time is that Chris Grayling, the worst ever Minister in British history, is standing AGAIN in the Epsom and Ewell constituency. What arrogance and gall.

Beyond belief really.




thanks for your clever response M8…


Johnson is rightly being criticised over his response to the London Bridge attack. He is clearly ruffled by the suggestions that the ten year Tory administration is partly to blame. Certainly austerity cuts in policing, the prison and probation services haven’t helped.

Whether this guy served his full sentence or only half is not the issue. We are told told that while in prison the muderer had asked for deradicalisation support but it had not been provided. Maybe it would have helped had it been provided but I accept that a wily extremist might simply go along with such a programme in order to secure release.

In terms of the policy which lets people out of prison before their full term is served, given the numbers of people we have in prison, which is among the highest in Europe, then unless we build more and more prisons then space has to be freed up somehow. And this guy seems to have been a model prisoner wanting to engage with deradicalisation and reintegration into society.

I reckon that the proper political response to this is not to deflect blame onto other parties but to build cross party consensus on appropriate responses. Certainly police/intelligence work has closed down numerous potential operations and deserve further investment. If society want to lock these people up for longer then it is going to have to invest in capacity. It will also have to put serious money into post-release monitoring and support, including finding employment for released prisoners. It would also help if the islamophobic comments made by those who should know better stopped. “Lettebox” and “bank robber” comments do nothing to foster good intra-community relations and serve only to make many muslims feel excluded and threatened.

Frog in a tree


Ha ha ha, very funny.


I have never understood why sentencing is reduced because we don’t have enough prison space to hold all the prisoners.
Build more… employ more prison staff… it’s supply and demand.

What you don’t do… is let criminals out 1/2 way (sometimes less) through their prison sentence.

Then there’s always the 100 pt plan… that would solve a lot and reduce costs.


Latest polls are showing the gap between Tories & Labour narrowing further. Now only 9 points between them. Mindful that the polls got it hopelessly wrong about Brexit losing in 2016 & again in 2017 about Theresa May’s predicted majority, more hope that if younger voters come out on 12/12 in key marginals, we may still see a pleasant surprise.

Brexit is for long-term. Whereas a Labour coalition is unlikely to last more than 2 or 3 years due to inevitable frictions with other opposition parties.

As for our (or any) prison system: I’ve always favoured a 2-tier system. One fairly cushy with lots of rehabilitation & support after sentences are served, but only for non-violent, low-level criminals.

However, I’d welcome harsher sentences for all serious unprovoked violence, including sexual. If someone is sentenced to 10 years, they should serve 10 years even with good behaviour. Not come out after 4 or 5 years.

If they can’t behave, then keep adding to the original sentence. Being left-wing or right-wing has nothing to do with it. Some issues go beyond party politics. - GLA.


Not widely reported why ?? but Polish guy working in a restuarant washing dishes come out and risks his life fighting a terrorist…

Lukasz’s bravery was celebrated by his colleagues.
One told The Times: “Being stabbed didn’t stop him giving him a beating. Lukasz is a hero.”
Poland’s justice minister, Zbigniew Ziobro, has asked the country’s president Andrzej Duda, to award Lukasz with its highest medal for “sacrifice and courage,”

wonder if the Tories will mention or award him ??


FIAT - i

Fine … until he went on the rampage and killed two people! Sounds like he was a ‘model’ terrorist who ‘played’ the system.
Build more prisons & keep terrorists locked up. That way they can’t dupe the judiciary, Parole Boards and the Probation Service infested with ‘liberal’ do-gooders… like most on this site.


Nah, Patel will probably have him deported for being involved in a violent fracas.




… and 99.99% of anyone else serving serious time too.


No we don’t, that’s bollocks @J_Westlock, although an easy trap to fall into if you don’t stop and think about it.

Those sentencing know what the policy is, of course, and allow for it.

The main reason this is done is to keep control of the behaviour of prisoners. They know that one foot out of place is an extra week, and they start to add up. A serious incident will see 3 or 6 months added. That’s serious punishment. That’s as much as a director in a FTSE 100 company gets for stealing tens of thousands of pounds - except his is suspended.

If they continue to break the rules they’ll do the full time and if they actually commit a crime inside it will be added to their current sentence if convicted.

It is a dangerous job being a prison warden. Talk to one of them about taking these rules away just so politicians can make a point. You’ll soon find out this is the best tool they have in their armoury for keeping things under control.


Not really, depends which one you look at. Opinium is showing a 15 point Tory lead. The Britain Elects poll of polls tracker has the Tories on 42.4% and Labour on 31.8%


Eadwig - hi

Texas has the answer … 99 year prison sentences.



see my post above to Mr Westlock.

Also, any sentence over 10 years that is actually served is no longer punishment due to the institutionalisation effect. - though it might be necessary for the safety of the public.

I’ve been in maximum security prison in Stockton-on-Forest just north of York. The very worst offenders had a cell each all opening onto a square day room with a full size snooker table (which I was delivering). There was a kitchenette and a TV room off that.

It was a helluva lot better than some of the places my friends were living in at the time.

We don’t need to be building more of these places. We already have the highest prison population in Europe and it costs us a fortune. And it doesn’t go beyond party politics. The Tories will always want to be seen to be giving longer sentences and they’ll also give less money to the service at the same time. Sentencing is always disproportionate against those with the least chances in life as well.

I’d rather see the cash spent on hospitals and some more money spent on education in these places, especially younger kids caught up in possibly serious gang violence but who are going to have grown out of it by the time they finally get out , unless we as a society give them no chance.