Brexit Wars 3



Perhaps, perhaps not. Ursula von der Leyen held a speech at LSE and she made clear that hurdle free access to the European market and free movement must come together. The UK may opt for a limited access in order to limit EU immigration. It’s a double shot in its own leg.

Another requirement are similar standards regarding environment, labour, subsidies… The more the UK wants to move away from EU standards, the more limited will its access to the EU market be.

She also said that it will not be possible to conclude all negotiations by the end of the year and if the UK insists on keeping the deadline a number of aspects of the future relationship will not have been agreed and put into the contract.

Johnson wants a trade deal without alignment of rules and legislation. In that case the UK will have to limit its trade with the EU with all the consequences that the businesses are warning about.


Good for them.
Rather than being parasites living off the taxpayer and living lives of luxury doing whatever they want… they will actually pay their way.

This is the first step to seeing the monarchy abolished and the Queen replaced with an elected, democratic head of state. The next step will be when the Queen dies and then we are going to have a Monarch the likes of which we haven’t seen for many decades.

As we’ve seen in recent times our monarchical system means politicians, and particularly the Prime Minister, have much more power than they would in a republic. The UK isn’t a true democracy and we have a halfway house where the PM with the Executive control the UK in just the same way as Monarchs of old.
Time to rip it apart and replace it.


staggering UK retail sales in 2019

Let’s see how its reported in the Tabloids and TV


In Dubai-- Hard to ignore the money spent but its obscene.
Seems like an huge economy built on encouraging rich to invest and slavery they bring PPL in from 3rd world countries to work with no protection then send them back home.

Is that what the Tories want for us ? increasing number of farm workers to come from non EU countries to work on farms? will they be in chains??

wouldn’t invest here for a big clock…


Why is it so difficult for people on this BB to rise above the personal? This isn’t about what I think. This is about communicating with the electorate and making them think you take their concerns seriously. When Long-Bailey says on Radio 4 “never again will our party put immigration controls on a mug” (a dig at Ed Milliband) or that uncontrolled immigration does not suppress wages who exactly do you think she is trying to win over or impress? Is it the electorate in the red wall constituencies that Labour got slaughtered in? Is it f**k. Language matters. Tone matters.

As for Brexit, the impact on immigration will be what the government want it to be which is relatively negligible. This government is pro-immigration (as am I and I never voted for Brexit for that reason). They understand though that talking tough and acting soft is the way forward. Labour just cannot seem to get it. I honestly don’t know what it is going to take for it to sink in.


It is the way to getting slaughtered in the next election. Once left the EU, why would those northern seats ever vote for a Tory government again? They will soon see they are pro-immigration and anti everyone outside the south east and that will be backed by falling standards of living, rising inflation and unemployment rates.

Unfortunately, Labour don’t have to change, they can just stay as shit as they are and wait for Boris to hand them power.


I disagree Eadwig. If Long-Bailey is leader the Tories will be able to do exactly what they’ve done this time and basically say “you think we are sh*t but just look at the alternative”. Labour can’t win unless it gets its act together. It is too out of touch.



I mostly agree with your post and specifically that “tone” matters. But so too does honesty. The Brexit Brigade and its RW support in the press ramped up immigration as an issue during the referendum and continues to do so to this day. Is it any surprise that in this toxic atmosphere that Harry and Meghan want to withdraw from the firing line?

There is a problem with the RW weaponising immigration and by doing so legitimising racist sentiment. As always, the truth is far more complicated. As you acknowledge, Brexit won’t do much to reduce immigration. If we have shortages in some areas then necessarily workers will be imported. In this context it is hard to imagine anything more stupid than the Tory decision to end bursaries for nurses who work in a modestly paid profession. Some of us predicted the consequences. Not too difficult really.

But what has been the effect on wages? According to Full Fact, it has mainly affected low paid occupations shaving off a half of one percent off wage rates. Almost certainly the “minimum wage” has had a bigger effect on the downside as well as the upside.

When times are tough many look to pull up the drawbridges to protect against the outsiders. This is what has happened since 2010 as a result of the largely unnecessary and ideological austerity programme. That certainly did reduce wages for many but Labour has been very poor at explaining that and, indeed, that it did not cause the banking crisis.

What we need is for our politicians to tell the truth rather than find “letterbox” and “piccaninny” scapegoats. We have seen what that led to in 1930’s Germany.

I accept that you did not vote Leave on the grounds of immigration but many did. Certainly the xenophobic tone of the Brexit campaign made it absolutely certain that I would not have voted for it. You have to make your own chaice about which red lines you are prepared to step over.

Frog in a tree


Hi Pete,

Apart from footballers I guess you are the only Merseysider in Dubai right now?

Bit of a culture shock for you. But just think of the opportunities with all them smart, expensive cars about with nice, shiny, collectable hubcaps.




The 2 things have nothing to do with each other.

This is not important, it is about perception. People think there is a problem so if you want their votes you need to listen to their concerns and appear to address them.

Labour needs to drop its fixation with identity politics and start talking in a language that people want to hear. If it can’t or won’t do that it cannot win elections.


I don’t particularly care, but two fewer grasping leeches is always welcome. I wish them well in their noble quest for financial independence and look forward to receiving a rebate for their mental wedding, ludicrous home renovations, and the two month holiday that they used to pull off this little ruse.

They’ve already produced “progressive manifestos” ffs. A couple who spends money like water and uses planes like most people take buses is going to put us all straight on where we’re going wrong in life. But as long as I’m not paying, you crack on, love. There’s definitely more than enough credulous idiots out there to listen and make you both obscenely rich.

You do have to hand it to them (her) though. Announcing that you intend to “continue to collaborate” with your own nan is elite level sh!thousery :joy: effectively relegating the Queen to Beats by Dre status.

They said they plan to balance their time between the UK and North America

Using Greta’s eco-yacht and “cough” in a bucket each time, I presume? Surely they won’t be flying backwards and forwards using ghastly hydrocarbons? Not in the middle of the climate emergency that they’ve been warning us all about?!


“The 2 things have nothing to do with each other.”

I would say that they absolutely are connected. The RW popular press is utterly racist in its tone and Meghan has been a target because of this. The Mail and the Express are utterly toxic.

Frog in a tree


It has absolutely nothing to do with race. They are from a bygone age in which they think they ought to be able bully the media into telling only happy, agreeable stories about royal personages. People dislike Meghan Markle because she is a woke snob who wants to lecture the public on everything from climate change to feminism. The royals think they should be above any criticism. They use the press as a self promotional tool and then cry foul at the slightest criticism.


So, what you mean is, it is about saying one thing, but doing something else?

That’s how you get votes of Brexiteers? Perhaps that works with stupid people…


Perhaps it does but as you lot keep telling me most of the people in this country are stupid, if Labour want to win they better learn how to start communicating with them.


Says more about you than her.




Who are these “people”?

Ah, maybe the thicko Leave voter types who want to be told about the myth of climate change, that mixed race couples should not have kids and women should know their place. Good old fashioned British values in fact.




Perhaps you are a climate change denier Huw?

And also an anti-feminist who would be greatly at home in Cyprus?



I don’t care if Labour wins. I care about politicians that act reasonably. If I remember right, Tories were pro EU and Labour against. Even the press was for joining. But later the EU never had many advocates in the UK. It was always tempting to blame the EU or spread lies - and for some it was simply fun - as Johnson once admitted.

The UK will change its perception of the EU once it has left. There is this big political and economic union at your doorstep and you decided to leave while all others want to join or are de facto members. It’s like leaving the house and looking at the lighted windows from the dark hearing the chatter from inside.


Your default response to inconvenient truths Frog. I’m neither of those things but I do have a problem with people who fly all over the world and leave a carbon footprint the size of Wales ramming it down my throat. What exactly is so difficult for you to understand about that? Is it simply that you have to leave the comfort blanket of your “everyone is a racist and everything they do is motivated by racism” bunker?