Brexit Wars 3



The stagnant growth in their major economies.

Who cares?



Another one-sided judgemental post from you full of slanderous assumptions about an entire population as if you were there & actually lived through those fearful, oppressive times. Some of us who obviously also didn’t live through them at least try to take on board existing documentary evidence on all sides of this & other arguments.

I’ll rejoin this BB once the nitty-gritty of Brexit trade talks get under way. I’m totally done with the judgemental assumptions, distortion & unashamed lies, especially from a minority of Remainers.

Catch up with all here well after 31st January. - GL.


based on years of research. how much have you done?


Try reading contemporary accounts (I.e still existing documentary evidence, such as diaries and archives) from the time and come to your own view - although it seems you’ve already made your mind up based on … what?



I see. So you’re inferring that you know better than others so you must be right regardless of anything? I imagine that attitude will surprise few.

I too have read extensively about the era & certainly more than enough to know the difference between concentration & extermination camps, not least to what degree Nazi propaganda controlled ordinary German citizens lives for years. I’ve also provided objective documentary links, a number of them here recently, that cast enormous doubt on slanderous assumptions such as your’s. - GL

Catch all later.


Eadwig - hi

As I posted earlier (26174)
Similarly, the USA is very unlikely to use nuclear weapons against Iran - but don’t discount Israel doing so in extremis.
I don’t think the USA will ‘nuke’ Iran (it doesn’t need to), but will almost certainly (with or without Israels help), stop Iran getting enough enriched uranium to make a viable nuclear weapon.
I also added that no one should discount Israel’s use if it’s nuclear weapons against Iran if there is no other option.
Israeli Jews won’t submit to a modern Middle East holocaust like the European ones did in the 1930’s / 40’s in Nazi Germany.
I bet neither of them could pick out Iran on a map. Typical Americans.
Also - I’m not American and I know where Iran is … just off the coast of Turkey - innit? :innocent:
Tick … Tock …


Well, Huw thinks its a viable option.


No. I’m saying I clearly know better than you based on your irrational comments flying in the face of documented and undisputed facts - such as Hitler’s order for a war of extermination.



IMO, you know relatively little on this as your long-established tendency is to pick selective information to fit whatever narrow narratives you want to push. Be it this complex topic or issues like Brexit. BBs have ample evidence of that. I know it. You know it, too. Now if only you could be honest with yourself on just this, we’d have something to discuss.

IMO, you frequently look for simple, pat answers to everything, however complex, to suit your biases. Very convenient. Also, I well understand where you come from. However, I prefer to see various realities as complex as they often are. Far more so than those prone to easy judgements like you can admit, as then quite often your simplistic arguments fall apart. Say no more.


Hi Jack and Eadwig,

I have also read around this subject and it is very clear to me that different sources will provide different views on how much the German population knew or did not know. I cannot believe that the German people were completely in the dark, some may have been, others may have shut their eyes and relied on the official narrative as it was easier. The reality is that stuff has a habit of seeping out because that is human nature. Clearly in those days such discussions would have to be had under cover for fear of attracting unwelcome attention from the nazis. The point I am making is that there are sources which give different accounts of what went on. We don’t need to fall out over it.


Frog in a tree


I think you’ll find Eadwig I was merely pointing out that the US could nuke Iran if they so choose. I had no comment to make on the consequences.


Yeah we know all about your research Eadwig, its generally what the last person in the pub told you.


you said

Europe’s political elite are looking at us with envy because we now have one of the most stable governments of all.

I asked

Could you name ONE of Europe political elite looking at us with envy.

Still waiting

Have you been caught out making stuff up again ??


Here’s the thing Pete, I’m actually working until 11 tonight and am staying up in the City so I have a reason to be online. You are a sad act for posting at this sort of time on a Friday.

Do you honestly think they are going to come out and admit it on the record? The UK is the only government in Europe without a single populist MP in it (no doubt you think the Tories are populist but they didn’t get elected on an anti immigration platform and BoJo has said time and time again he is in favour of it).

Look at the state of European demcracy, show me a country that is stable and not facing a massive populist threat? Look at Spain, Italy, France, Germany. They would all kill to hold power with the sort of majority and authority BoJo has now. No point expecting you to see the bigger picture is there really.


I have no wish to discuss anything with you.

Here is what I actually said …

Then you launch into a load of personal, unsubstantiated ,attacks, obviously with a long standing agenda on your mind. I had no idea you had such a problem with me.

Probably all about the fact you were stupid enough to be duped into voting Brexit and my above comment struck home.

I didn’t even know you were involved in the ‘debate’. But hey, if the cap fits, you wear it.


Just a totally theoretical comment then?

But in reality, no they couldn’t. As I said.


So again you said
Europe’s political elite are looking at us with envy because we now have one of the most stable governments of all.
I asked (3 times )
Could you name ONE of Europe political elite looking at us with envy.
You answer finally
Do you honestly think they are going to come out and admit it on the record?

Surely you can see making up things like this is making you look like a Dunce

You brought a few other things up to deflect eg Populist Gov. Yes I do think this Gov is controlled by populists and they are anti immigrants and Racist eg Picaninnies Letterboxes etc plays to that audience. Not one Populist party in the EU is stupid enough to want to Leave.

In terms of Time of reply dont apologise I am 69 retired and have plenty of time to reply always can have a lie in any morning …



Thanks. A final comment from me on this thread until well after 31/01. That’s 100%.

I’m wrong to have used any personal digs. For that I sincerely apologise. That’s not justified, even though I’ve had to endure far worse from others on this occasionally diabolical thread, including accusations of anti-Semitism. To me, an aspect of foul play beyond what’s reasonable.

I’d made ample comments over recent days countering a few claims, also adding fairly objective links (it’s immaterial now who said it), that the German population, ie. the majority, was ever persuaded about genocidal exterminations. IMO, there’s no incontrovertible proof of that. To claim so stigmatises an entire population. Where have we seen similar behaviour before?

Throughout that dark era, fear predominated. Anyone suspecting the worst, the scale of which was quite unprecedented, mostly kept quiet due to Gestapo & Nazi reprisals. Even spreading anti-Nazi leaflets saw some young Germans guillotined without fair trial. That was the brutal reality.

There’s ample evidence of Nazi propaganda specifically sanitising the awful fate of Jewish people & others (ie. claimed resettlement, etc.). We know there was no free press. Whilst there are indeed references to exterminating Jewish citizens & all opposition forces in the East, we’ve similar references to Jewish people going back to the early 1920s in Germany. German civilians had heard it all before. So context is significant.

But the official Nazi propaganda line as presented to the German population was to hide the scale of the insanity & project palatable ideas of forced labour camps & gradual mass resettlement.

Admittedly, my patience with contradictions & selectivity occasionally runs thin.

According to some, on the one hand propaganda is 100% effective. For eg. racist/xenophobic propaganda swaying many people to vote Brexit along those lines is assumed as fact. Because it suits certain narratives. This despite modern citizens having access to many alternative views. However, omnipresent Nazi propaganda that was hard to contradict in Nazi Germany, sanitising their horrendous crimes was, according to the same people, 100% ineffective. Because it fits a very different narrative.

FWIW, if I claimed that all those living for years under IS-occupied areas in the ME all knew & agreed to the murder of civilians & mass rape of female captives, I’d rightly be considered as unfair, biased, judgemental & making slanderous assumptions about many innocent Muslims trapped in those areas. At least I’d hope so as such views would plainly be coloured. I’ve seen no proof that the majority were ever persuaded to support the horrors of IS. Many just did their best for their families to survive that oppressive reign of murder & mayhem.

Some people make generalised, judgemental comments to zealously drive home certain points. Even if I like those people as posters in general, it doesn’t mean I’ll turn a blind eye to pointing out what I disagree with.

That’s all from me for a while. So all please note that any further comments will not be responded to. Life’s too short & I spend enough time as it is at trading screens. - Regards. Typo edited.


JD , you’re better than this, just walk away.

This BB has reached new lows with the EU Groupies now turning on there own, and for what ? Taking their frustrations out on anyone that has different views ? What’s happened to tolerance?


From the person who gleefully used to post about how the “streets would erupt” and “ there’ll be riots” if there was ever a second referendum.