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Brexit Wars 3

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#28283

Not here, but ask someone from the PIS.


#28284

@arsanias You stated the above as why the discussion was taking place so maybe you can evidence that with a real example, quote or link?

Or is this all based on a pile of shite?


#28285

The “Lex Gross” is a real example. It was meant to mute any scientists that bring evidence against the traditional and official version of history that no Poles were ever involved.

I quote from an article (in german): "If your opponents are dissatisfied with the findings of scientists such as Jan Tomasz Gross, Anna Bikont or Jan Grabowski about the participation of non-Jews in Poland in the persecution of Jews in World War II, it is their task to dispute these findings or to contextualize them again. But it is not their job to prohibit them by law. It is clear that the Polish government, with the help of Lex Gross, is building another building block in the wall of its right-wing populist, nationalist politics, instead of allowing a genuine discussion of history and the truth.

It is clear that the Polish government, with the help of Lex Gross, is building another building block in the wall of its right-wing populist, nationalist politics, instead of allowing a genuin"


#28286

I don’t see it say “no Pole was ever involved in crimes against Jews”

Guess this whole discussion then is based on shite.


#28287

as I said many have been here for years, kids at school, extended family etc etc and Jobs where employers want them to stay.
moving is not an easy option, better for them to stay for a while see how long it take to collapse or be cancelled.
And then they will move quick enough then…

> These people aren’t stupid Pete, they know this is a political choice that is not motivated by hatred of outsiders

This is the stupidest thing you have said … ask them IF you do know any, how the feel??
just a couple of examples of why people (like you) who cant name a single benefit for leaving voted LEAVE

image
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#28288

Bang on the money Arsanias!

This discussion is not about demonising the Polish people, it is about confronting the historic truth which includes the facts that there were many Polish heros and many Polish collaborators. When I said that Poland was in denial, principally I meant that Poland as a state was in denial as demonstrated by its recent law which tried to quash debate on the complicity of some Poles with the nazi holocaust. Germany to its credit has been much more open to discussion of these things than the stae of Poland. I understand that the trauma suffered by Poles makes this a difficult topic but still it has to be discussed. Sadly, Poland is currently ruled by a party with authoritarian tendencies and which is supported by a nationalist culture which has a Catholic Christian heritage as a defining factor to the exclusion of others, hence its current resistance to providing shelter to refugees in defiance of international law.

All of us with European family roots will have been touched by the war. Certainly Jack’s family suffered greatly as he has told us. Maybe Eadwig’s Polish partner’s family carry their own scars. Perhaps your own. As for me, I have described how my maternal grandfather was taken prisoner of war by the Germans and put to forced labour and nearly starved and worked to death. He was rescued by my grandmother who obtained forged papers certifying him as a trained nurse. I found this Wiki article this morning which explained why this was a successful strategy.

All of the above, explains why I am such a firm supporter of the EU and its founding principles.

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#28289

I wonder why my reply to JAR yesterday was expunged?

Was it because I called him “nasty” because of his hatred for Soros and progressive woke people everywhere?

Was it because due to me calling orangehead guilty (as he obviously is)?

Or because I posted up a helpful map to his nearest Crem?

Could have been my criticism of JAR for supporting Israel which allows its soldiers to shoot stone throwing Palestinian children I suppose? Well that is a fact as reported by the Israeli Press:

IMHO,

SBK


#28290

SBUK - hi

Wasn’t me who flagged you m8.
I’m quite happy to let the world (or rather this echo chamber), see your warped & misguided views.
Happy Brexit
JAR


#28291

All in your view Froglet… and also factually inaccurate.

It isn’t quashing debate… there’s probably never been more debate on it… their law is about making factually incorrect public statements that ascribe to the Polish nation collective responsibility.
That’s all it is. No “whitewash”.

In fact, if you take a look at the definition of antisemitism that was in hot contention a few months ago… that clearly attempts to police the discursive boundaries of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in a way that places the core issues out of bounds. Anyone who says that Israel is a racist, settler-colonial project is automatically an antisemite under the definition.
That is way beyond what most thought of as antisemitism a few years ago… all updated by the pro-Israeli lobby.

That is something that clearly attempts to stop discussion by branding those who say that as racists and who then can be subject to measures under UK law.


#28292

Still not found anything @arsanias ?


#28293

Westlette,

Another view for your delectation and delight.

The Polish government had to backtrack a bit but they made their intention clear.

We are on dangerous ground when a government dictates the terms on which historic events can be discussed. The Law and Justice party will be judge and jury.

Frog in a tree


#28294

SBUK - hi

The Guardian of the Israeli press and mouthpiece for their ‘liberal wokies’

Haaretz describes itself as having “a broadly liberal outlook both on domestic issues and on international affairs”. Others describe it alternatively as liberal, centre-left, or left-wing. The newspaper opposes retaining control of the territories and consistently supports peace initiatives.
Wikipedia

Unlike Palestinian areas Israeli democracy allows dissent
Happy Brexit m8
JAR


#28295

“Unlike Palestinian areas Israeli democracy allows dissent…”

…and the unlawful occupation and annexation of other peoples’ land.

Clearly an impaired democracy then.

Frog in a tree


#28296

Once again Froglet you are out of date and misrepresenting what the law actually says.

The law talks about anyone who “publicly and against the facts” accuses the Polish state or nation of being “responsible or complicit in” Nazi crimes will be guilty of a civil (rather than a criminal) offence.

I see little wrong with that if people stick to facts.
It isn’t about stopping discussion it is about slander.


#28297

FIAT - hi

Agree … name a perfect one then!
Happy Brexit
JAR


#28298

Israel is an apartheid state.

  • 700,000 citizens expelled from their homeland: towns and villages destroyed or renamed.
  • It continues today, in 2016, thousands of homes were siezed from Palestinians on the West Bank and thousands of people were made refugees.
  • Since 2007, Gaza has suffered from an Israeli blockade (that contravenes international law… UK and US do nothing about that). It deliberately blocks off access to farmland and the coast.

Before anyone objects to me using the word apartheid. Note that The International Criminal Court’s definition of apartheid is… “an institutionalised regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over another”.
It is the same reason why Israel is one of the few countries that doesn’t acknowledge the UN-created International Criminal Court.


#28299

Regardless of that silly comment, the Israeli defence forces continue to use disproportionate force against stone throwing children by shooting them with live ammunition resulting in them being killed or crippled. That is the undeniable point.

Sneering at peace initiatives just goes to show that you are a fool. The only hope for the continuance of Israel - which should be the case - is a fair accommodation with the Palestinians. Even the British Army could not continue to control Palestine and one day the USA may decide to withdraw its support. It did slip during the Obama years. Trump ditched the Kurds. Extreme violent repression only works for a period, long or short, and hardens the resistance to it. It is time limited as history has shown, time after time.

IMHO,

SBK


#28300

This is how stupid they think ppl are in the UK.
This guys profile says FORMER MEP no mention of him being Brexit Party
posts this… Imagine what EU sources he has…

Dr David Bull @drdavidbull
Breaking: My sources in Brussels are telling me that EU is in chaos after the UK’s departure. The anger & fear is palpable. They are now questioning whether English should be the common language! The question being asked ‘Is English necessary’ . Apparently this is to punish us !


#28301

Exactly SBUK.
The more that the Israeli Government and it’s fragile, here-today-gone-tomorrow set of allies (including UK) treat the Palestinian people like 2nd class citizens the more seeds they sow of their eventual destruction.
It is something almost unthinkable today given the wealth, support and military superiority of Israel… but things have a habit of changing especially when they are built on lies, discrimination and the rest of the world turning a blind eye… and what they do today will be remembered.


#28302

so
130Bill so far Brexit… Hs2 200Bn Irish Bridge ?? UK borrowing 2 Trillion.

PMs past record…
The Garden Bridge
Cost: £53million, £46million of which was public money.
Despite the heavy spending, building work never began and the project was cancelled once Boris Johnson left office.
Hop-on, hop-off Routemaster buses
Cost: £321.6million
Passengers complained about the heat, which reached 38 degrees and windows were impossible to open. The doors are now being closed, so passengers can no longer hop on. Both this and the Garden Bridge were designed by Thomas Heatherwick.
The Emirates Airline cable car
Cost: £60m
This project, connecting the O2 with the Excel Centre, was completed. It was supposed to be paid for in full by the sponsorship with Emirates, but it ran over and the public picked up the £24m extra cost.
The water cannon
Cost: £323k
Mr Johnson purchased these second hand during his time as Mayor, but then Home Secretary Theresa May refused to give him a license to use them and they ended up being sold for scrap.