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Brexit Wars 3

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#4243

FIAT - hi

No … I’m waiting for Theresa May’s job to become vacant
JAR


#4244

It is one of the most bizarre double-standards surrounding the Leave campaign that I have been pointing out since before the vote. That and the fact that a vote to Leave if taken seriously by the UK government was effectively turning their back on the terms of the Good Friday agreement.

What you are effectively saying (along with many other Brexiteers) is that you are happy for the EU to dictate border control policy to the UK post Brexit. Quite prepared to give up sovereignty on that issues, and not just to do with EU citizens, but any immigrants from around the globe.

Not to mention happily allow the EU to recreate a climate in which groups such as the IRA (little more than organised crime to my mind) will thrive, should they decide to reintroduce border controls.

The only logical conclusion is that Leave was a vote for “taking back control of our borders” by some, but to hand over control of our only land border entirely to the EU by others. As there is no way to measure these proportions, not to mention all the other reasons why people voted Leave, and because politicians keep telling us that Brexit was clearly a vote to control immigration, it is one of the very strongest arguments for a second referendum of some kind.

I can’t help wincing when I think what the history books will say about all this nonsense in years to come and what future generations will make of it all.

Brexit can be relegated to a footnote in the history books if we only had a strong enough leadership to do a U-turn on how to interpret the non-binding Leave vote.


#4245

Where do you get this from? For a foreign student to get a student visa they have to pay their course fees (50% higher than UK students) and accommodation fees in advance. They also have to name a sponsor who undertakes to ensure their good behaviour and can be made liable for any debts or illegal acts while in the UK and to make sure they don’t overstay their visa.

This all has to be done before a visa will be issued (and no guarantees there at all) to allow them into the country to study.

Giving out student loans to foreign students, then forcing them back to a low paying economy on graduation, then expecting them to repay any loan only when a certain (UK-based) salary figure is reached sounds like a complete fabrication to me.

The real facts are that foreign students, and in some cases foreign governments such as China at York University in recent years, heavily subsidize British students.

I wonder why it is that our main rival for foreign students, the USA, can show any State-level uni, such as E.g. Iowa State receiving endowments (lets call them subsidies shall we) of over $1Bn per year, every year, where as our richest Universities (Oxford and Cambridge) struggle to achieve such funding and our ‘everyday’ universities can only dream about such sums.

I’ve never seen figures for the ‘Ivy League’ colleges of USA, (about 12 of which are in the global top 50 on Huw’s link) but they must be mind-bogglingly large.

Why would we handicap such an important sector even further when we should be looking for ways to encourage its growth?


#4246

Eh? What are you talking about now @c3pow ?

You said in your earlier post: “Once upon a time a long time ago, the UK used to educate it’s own nurses.”

And I replied:

"
We still do.
87.3% of NHS staff in England are British… 12.7% are not.

So… of the 12.7%… they come from a mixture of Asia, Africa, Americas, Caribbean and EU states.

I’m not sure why this is a Brexit related issue… In or Out of the EU… it is something for the NHS to address if indeed there is anything to be addressed.
By the way, in the 50s and 60s… prior to UK joining EU… hospitals were still recruiting heavily from countries such as India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
"

So I’m really unclear how you junped from my above comment on makeup of NHS staff… to you thinking I made the point…" if we had little in the way of immigration and we stopped all health tourism then we wouldn’t need to import any ( significant amount ) healthcare professionals."

I see that Froglet has already answered you regarding your latest uneducated comments on ‘health tourism’ so I won’t bother for now.


#4247

Because, like foreign students, anything that whiffs of foreigners coming to these shores for any length of time is seen as synonymous with the Brexit Leave vote.

I always thought (and warned on the old ii boards) that Brexit was likely to let the xenophobic genie out of the bottle and its very hard to argue now that that hasn’t happened. The far right has a new lease of life and the Tories are talking about, and enacting, policies that are designed to reduce net immigration to a level that can only harm the country and our services.

The irony is that as brexit bites deeper, the net immigration figure will fall quite naturally as we export our wealth-making talent leaving plenty of room in the figures for fruit-pickers and elderly care staff. Even the most talented fruit pickers will go to places like France before coming to earn worthless GB pounds, though.


#4248

You are of course correct but it shouldn’t stop anyone pointing out the obvious holes in their ill thought out ‘arguments’. A child could easily do the same… they aren’t the brightest.


#4249

image


#4251

Good news: Hargreaves in despair, thinks Brexit ain’t happening.

It is about time such “elite” fat cats were stopped from buying UK elections:

IMHO,

SBK


#4252

http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-brexit-deal-public-sentiment/

Bloomberg has published polling data on Brexit which may bring comfort to Remainers and Leavers in parts.

The key for me is that on a poll of polls basis Remain has a 6% points lead which is more than half as much again as the Leave majority in the referendum. If there is to be a second referendum then Brexiters may want it to take place as soon as possible before even more of their supporters shuffle off their mortal coils.

Happy days!

Frog in a tree


#4253

What a paranoid long winded reply. Basically saying that the people we have on the council and commission are not of the same opinions as you and UKIP so it must be undemocratic.
43years 1400 or so laws. Name one for me that was imposed on us.
One law the Tories disliked was the ANTI TAX AVOIDANCE DIRECTIVE. they lobbied against even naming Tax Havens…
Not really much anti EU rhetoric on that imagine.
THE EU SUPERSTATE IS MAKING OUR BILLIONAIRES PAY TAX IN THE UK.


#4254

I don’t think @c3pow is the type that is going to listen to any reply posted… one of the many who throw mud around then disappear… before resurfacing again and throwing some more.
People like that aren’t interested in debating or making any logical points or replies.


#4255

I see that Brexiter “Failing” Grayling is saying that if Brexit doesn’t go ahead that those who voted Leave will feel betrayed and turn to far-right parties.

That’s alright then…he’s wrong on everything else too.

Frog


#4256

was he the one that gave a 15mill contract to ferry co worth £66 .
when I hear them talk like that it shows how desperate they have become as the see it falling apart.


#4257

It’s very interesting how they’ve changed tactics over time in failed attempts to get MPs to support the May Deal.
Grayling said:
“If MPs who represent seats that voted 70% to leave say ‘sorry guys, we’re still going to have freedom of movement’, they will turn against the political mainstream”.

Well… firstly… if that does happen… absolutely great! The medieval 2-Party adversarial politics of the UK is well passed it’s sell by date.

Secondly, re: “freedom of movement”… for the umpteenth time… there is already an EU Directive out that the UK could use (from tomorrow) if it chose to use then it could… repatriate EU nationals after 3 months if they have not found a job or do not have the means to support themselves… which is all that most who have concerns about EU free movement actually want.
Again, you might want to ask your local MP why that has never been used.


#4258

Tories protecting Tory Donors and Brexit backers now the Anti Tax Directive is in place…

Hard Brexit game to protect tax avoidance. Mays Deal we follow EU laws,
SO
whats the point…

James Goddard: Yellow vest activist ‘arrested on public order offence’ in London


#4260

Really take a look at the unemployment levels in Europe and the looming recessions negative GDP Germany Italy France lower than uk
Uk still strongest growth we are better out of Europe
Such trite remain nonsense


#4268

image

… and you have the cheek to tell others they don’t understand basic economics.

Typical refusal of Brexiteers to accept simple facts, one might retort. Where the idea that the Uk has the strongest growth comes from I really can’t imagine.


#4269

It’s amazing that the Brexiteer fraternity have the innate ability to give everyone who reads what they post the knowledge that they aren’t as stupid as they thought they were…thank you all!!


#4270

Currently UK students pay back loans through PAYE and government projections are that the average loan will reach a level of about 76,000 after 30 years and then be written off. Loan levels are current;ly about 30 billion a year, with 1 billion going to EU students. Only 15% ever pay of all their debt. The average repayment per UK person for the year in which I can get repayment statistics is £890 the average payment for EU is £590. There is automatic repayment for UK students but no automatic system for overseas students who 22% of which make no repayment at all. They may be unemployed but when non payment occurs only a very few have ever been pursued and the loans currently seem not to be pursued although they make noises about doing so.
See House of Commons library briefing paper 1079
See https://www.slc.co.uk/media/5365/slcosp012013.pdf
The student loan system is a complete fiasco.
New statistics expected this year, but they are not user friendly.


#4271

Yes you are unclear. I made the point that imported nurses are only adequate for the numbers of imported people. If we didn’t do one we wouldn’t need the other, but you seem preoccupied with uneducated comments. As a professional educator for far too long to college level, uneducated is not my forte, but maybe yours.
What’s it got to do with brexit? Well you tell me… every time people start arguing for brexit and control of our country, our laws and our borders - people on the dim side of the political spectrum keep squeaking about doctors and nurses. Why? I expect it’s because they think it some kind of virtue signal. Who knows the inner workings of the leftie mind?