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Brexit Wars 3

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#4295

Yep. It’s clutching at straws to find things bad to say about the Corbyn interview if the only criticism was about his words on ECHR where he (wrongly) said “which is only in part an EU institution”… however it is true that for new EU members they now must sign up to the ECHR… and maybe that’s what he was referring to.


#4296

Maybe… but they wouldbn’t be able to use the backstop as an excuse… as they want UK to be part of a customs union that negates the need for a hard border between NI and Republic.


#4297

Addenbrookes Hospital, employ over 96 nationalities, 10% of whom are from the EU. Are you suggesting we could just replace them with British people if we stopped immigration? Surely you want the gobal best surgeon to do your op?


#4298

A good point made by David Smith in today’s Sunday Times:

"Having grown up with the idea that Tory MPs are pre-disposed to be business-friendly and have some economic nous, it seems that does not apply to many of the current crop. A majority of those surveyed by the UK in a Changing Europe research group think that a no-deal Brexit will be a breeze.

Even more disturbing, 85% of Tory MPs surveyed think that deals with China, America and other countries will compensate for the loss of trade with the EU. They also think, against trade experience and evidence, such deals will be signed quickly. The government’s own analysis suggests that such deals will add only 0.2% to 0.7% to GDP against a near 8% loss from leaving the single market, for very good reasons of geography. Foxhunting may have been banned but too many Tories are still hunting for unicorns"

Sadly, many of our friends on these boards are also unicorn hunters as they believe in the same fairy tales as the Tory Brexit-ears.

Frog in a tree


#4299

JW, I think the most damning thing that can be said about the interview is that there wasn’t anything good to say about it…he was smirking a lot & almost seemed to be enjoying himself by ‘trying’ to be jokey. There is an almost total lack of leadership from him. At times like this the country needs leaders. He isn’t going to lift a finger to get us out of this mess, other than to demand a general election, at some point in the future when he has ‘calculated’ he stands the most chance of winning a ‘No confidence’ vote (in the government, not TM!)


#4300

I’m not sure what you are suggesting he should do instead. The Labour Party isn’t going to abandon the policy that what was voted for at Conference which is to Leave the EU… but on a different basis than the May Deal. Being ‘The Opposition’ means they are limited in what they can do… and it’s OK people and Media rattling on about it but the Vote is supposed to be on Tuesday (though I still suspect it will be postponed) and we won’t hear anything of any note until sometime between 21st-28th Jan.
The Labour position is to wait until there’s sufficient support to call no confidence in the Government and have a General Election where they will still be campaigning to Leave under their own Deal… and ditto for the Tories. I doubt whether they will get a sufficient number for that even after a downvote next week.

In the meantime, until sufficient numbers of MPs give their support for a specific new type of Deal or to #BrexitRef2 then we’ll just be hearing the same tired old arguments. As we progress into Feb then I reckon large numbers will divide into those two camps… hopefully it will be the #BrexitRef2 camp that has the largest following but either way they’ll extend Article 50 sometime in Feb.


#4301

This Saturday several hundred pro-Brexit campaigners rallied outside St James’s Park Tube station wearing the high-vis vests made famous by anti-fuel tax protesters in France. Pathetic. Compare this to the 70,000 People Vote march last November. We’ll see what happens but I’m convinced #BrexitRef2 is coming soon.


#4302

JW, Corbyn at the very least should take that smirk off his face. He also needs to lay out a Labour policy that would work NOT his cake & eat it, fantasy deal approach. It’s fooling nobody. He needs to come off the fence and ‘possibly’ even work with TM to get a deal done.

I thought TM has 3 days to come up with a plan B if her deal gets a ‘downvote’…so Monday 21st Jan (at the latest) we should get more information.

I’m also not sure that an extension of Art50 is guaranteed…the EU may only give an extension for a tangible political reason (GE or referendum). So if the EU think the UK is playing games (which seems to be the way Corbyn is behaving) then they may not allow an extension and we leave on 29th March in a crash out.


#4303

Uncle_D, I believe that Peter attended the November march and met everyone there…so he can confirm that there were about 700,000 on the ‘Peoples’ protest.


#4304

SUMMARY…
BOTTOM LINE - Britain’s imperial glory still looms large in the popular imagination, but the realities of a post-Brexit world are unlikely to live up to it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-10/can-britain-measure-up-without-the-eu?srnd=premium-europe


#4305

shook hands with every one of them…



#4306

Just wish he would ask the membership…


#4307

Excellent point. An extension of Article 50 has to be granted by the EU. People who think it can unilaterally be declared, don’t understand the process.


#4308

The 27 will grant an extension if there is a material change in Westminster politics, i.e . there is a General Election or a People’s Referendum.

IMHO,

SBK


#4309

Well you might not like it but if there is a General Election called prior to end of March then a) Article 50 will be extended (and it will be no prob at all in the EU agreeing to that) and b) if Labour are elected they will work to get a new Deal with the EU.

Correct… if there’s a downvote then you should hear what they plan to do next by end of Monday 21st (as I said). If there’s not a vote then they need to make a statement (on the same) by end of Monday 28th.

Yes… either for a GE or a 2nd Referendum certainly… but also if a majority of MPs vote for a new type of Deal such as Stephen Kinnock’s Common Market 2.0 Brexit plan… then I would expect the EU to welcome that. The EU have known for a long time that the May Deal is in its death throes which is one of the reasons they won’t waste anymore time on it.
Problem is… this Government started out without a cross-Party agreement on their Brexit Plan… and that is why it predictably has come unstuck.


#4310

They did… in September… at their Annual Labour Conference… and that’s what they voted for.
Their Party policy is the result of consultation with members, elected representatives (MPs, MEPs and councillors) and the trade unions.

I don’t want to leave the EU… but the only way it will happen is by this incompetent Government staying in power, it being recognised that the May Deal is dead… and then large numbers of MPs cross-Party agreeing on #BrexitRef2… though another possibility is that they agree on an alternative Plan… even though not much sign of that as things stand.


#4311

again, even if so, it only proves how well the UK does in the EU.

Probably you will never elaborate on the logic behind that after you told us how well the UK is in the EU and how much better it does than its EU mates, which is a miracle in itself as Brexiteers like to point out how much the UK is exploited by the EU.


#4312

The EU will not allow alterations to the deal. So Labour would have to revoke article 50, but even that is difficult, because they would have to be in charge by 23 March.


#4313

I understand what you’re saying but as soon as a GE is called… and if before end of March… then it’s a cast iron cert that Article 50 gets extended.


#4314

And by the way… they won’t allow alterations to the type of Deal that May wanted… but other types would effectively be starting afresh. This Tory Government came up with a series of red lines that drove one type of Deal where they then believed they could cherry pick the best bits of customs union and single market.