Brexit Wars 3



Good news How many jobs?? where ?? and what type of Job??


BBC not only Bans EU flags but has to issue Union Jacks… You couldn’t make it up…



Dear Constituent,
All human beings - and even animals - need borders, limits and constraints. They may be physical, ‘an Englishman’s home is his castle.’ They may be moral or habitual - we prefer not to spit or swear on a public bus. There’s no law against it. It’s just that it goes against our natural decent inclinations. They are nearly always imaginary - our animals, even our free-range pigs, very rarely stray over the border which is our front gate. They know their limitations and stick by them.
Attempts to build huge physical borders to keep people in - or out - very rarely work. Hadrian discovered that to his cost. The Mongol hordes swarmed over the Great Wall of China. Few people would hail the Berlin Wall as being a huge success; we all detest the needless wall in Israel and even more strongly that surrounding the ghetto in Warsaw. Mr Trump’s $5 billion wall with Mexico is an absurd piece of political narcissism. And the fence around Hungary will not stop the vast flow of migrants from the Middle East and North Africa. Walls of this kind rarely work.
If you want to keep people in a place - or out of it - you have to create the conditions which will make them not want to cross it. The reunification of Germany, the withdrawal of the Romans, and today, a longed-for increased peace and prosperity throughout the Middle East is the only thing which will stop the vast tide of humanity seeking a better life in Europe.
So it is with the Northern Irish border. No-one with half a brain, on either side of the Brexit argument, believes that a ‘hard’ border with the Republic is either desirable or possible. The Brits deployed 26,000 soldiers on the border during the Troubles. Yet it remained entirely porous. I remember watching smuggler ‘Slab Murphy’ moving large quantities of petrol across the border within a few hundred yards of the Army ‘sangar’ which housed our surveillance equipment. There will not be a ‘hard’ border. But there must be - and already is - a border. There are different tax regimes and VAT north and south of it.
96% of the world’s trade is never inspected by customs men, who are largely interested in drugs, tobacco, and alcohol, as well as people and bush meat, in which there is a large and wholly illegal trade. Those inspections are very largely intelligence-led, and do not involve ‘hard’ borders at all.
So if the Southern Irish are concerned about better or cheaper goods being imported into their country, then they must be ready to face the competition, and realise that it comes about largely because of uncompetitive EU rules and regulations. There are a variety of ways of electronically and procedurally monitoring goods that cross the border. Goods (or people) which cross illegally (in either direction) will remain smuggled goods, unsaleable except on the black market. Illegal immigrants remain just that - illegal - and therefore unable to claim benefits, work legally, go to hospital or educate their children.
The whole question of the Irish border is a chimera - a problem thought up by the EU as a means of stopping Brexit. So I wish the PM well as she sets off to Brussels to persuade them that we need borders, just not ’hard’ ones.
Best wishes,
James Gray, MP for North Wiltshire


Not another one…someone who distorts the facts (Boradmoor will be happy, he has taught you well). RRW you’ve been caught out this time…time to own up.

"Claim: The UK paid out £674 million in health costs to European countries, but received only £49 million in return. Addressing this could “transform the financial situation of the NHS”. [spot anything familiar]

Conclusion: The figures are broadly correct, although addressing this situation would in itself only have a marginal impact on the financial situation of the NHS. [The truth according to ‘Full Facts’]"

RRW must be silly if he thinks he can get away with such blatant distortion of the truth.


PTN, the Eurovision competition isn’t anything to do with the EU, is it? Why would people be flying ‘EU’ flags at such an event…if not to provoke a reaction or protest a political point? quite right to ban them. Hopefully they will be banning ‘gilet jaune’ too :wink:


Ah name calling again it appears you have lost the argument I am sure 600 million plus would be benefit lots of patients in the NHS
Shame you have no relevant argument


The truth hurts doesn’t it, m8 :face_with_monocle:

What is someone who distorts facts and purposefully misquotes?? oh, I know…a purveyor of alternative facts!


Oh, you weren’t referring to your untruths…you were standing up for your mate Hugh Jarse. I wasn’t calling him names btw…I was asking him why he needs us to tell him what to think. He needs to start thinking for himself…stop relying on being told what is OK…open your door AND open your minds :wink:


Did James Gray (an MP !) really write that @critterman ?
Or was it some junior school kid?

3 paragraphs on what walls are… and how they don’t work… then straight onto the Irish Border.
This chap clearly knows very little about the situation and one more just mouthing off without doing any reading, research on what used to happens and the legalities of what happens at borders and why.

Firstly, during “The Troubles” he referred to… both UK and Ireland were almost the whole time in the EU… most border roads were closed during this period and usually traffic was routed through check points. This was a security measure… and NOT for any of the reasons that Border controls are required between an EU state and a non-EU state.
James Gray should be ashamed if he doesn’t realise the above or isn’t intelligent enough to understand that point.

So there we have the threat of Brexit… because UK is Leaving the EU then unless Ireland (and EU) stops some of the protection of their Single Market then they will suffer. Well, guess what, the whole of the UK is going to be economically worse off thanks to Brexit too. We weren’t told that one 3 years ago either.
Oh and by the way… “Southern Irish”… tut tut… is he trying to distinguish between the Eastern Irish and the Western Irish?

It isn’t about just monitoring Goods crossing a border. Geee… some people really are fools not to understand this.
As an example what about the sanitary/veterinary checks that will need to take place at the border between an EU state and a non-EU state… how are they going to be done without staff and facilities close to the Border?

Just more woolly “thinking” from another Brexiteer.


Are we now into banning people with flags from events where they aren’t strictly necessary? What next? Football matches? Festivals?


RRW, I don’t quite follow your argument…where did you get the £600m plus figure from? You misquoted an article from ‘Full Facts’ which I presume was intended to mislead (if it wasn’t intentional then an apology from you will suffice). Now you come up with another statement that doesn’t make sense to me…please tell us what you mean?.." I am sure 600 million plus would benefit lots of patients in the NHS"


It’s easy Oily… he lied.


Clever pigs…they know that his ‘front gate’ is a border.

I’ve noticed similar things on most farms…the cattle never escape even though the gates are open…it must be a natural instinct of animals that tells them not to go through the open ‘front gate’…or perhaps it’s the cattle grid :wink:


Don’t need gates and fences anyway Oily… “alternative arrangements” and use of “new technology” now make them redundant.


Yes…I expect there are certain flags or banners that would be totally unacceptable at ‘football matches’. Why would someone want to wave an ‘EU’ flag at a Eurovision event?


That is really one of the key messages Brexiteers so vigorously erase from their version of reality. They cannot allow that to enter their minds because it pulverises one of their key arguments for Brexit: the illusion of making “our own deals that are better”.


Source? You claim so many things that turn out to be twisted or completely wrong. So, please proved sources or don’t post.


Even if so, why would an european army be a bad thing and why would it be an insult to the USA? I just don’t get it. Why did Trump say that? First he complains Europe isn’t doing enough for its safety and that Europe will be on it’s own because the USA do their “America first” stuff and rather spend the money on the wall. Then Europe says, ok, as a consequence we will have to build our own army, and then Trump feels insulted. … and his fan boys repeat that nonsense. But what is the insult?

…while we are at it, we should also expel their nuclear weapons. I don’t want to be a target for the Russians.


The hospital of Düsseldorf in Germany is recruiting polish nurses in the UK. It placed ads in two polish newspapers in the UKę-brexitem-niemiecka-klinika-werbuje-polaków/ar-BBTluir


Please feel free to debate the content of his constituent letter with him directly and post his response.


Market forces will always dictate and most people who choose to better their current living standards will go where they consider the pay and conditions are better. I guess that’s why they came here in the first place and also why many Brits decide to work elsewhere. I doubt if many move countries and leave their families and friends for the love of their job! So if the conditions and pay are better in another country then clearly they may well choose to move.

Likewise, as in the past, UK will no doubt seek skilled people from other countries and fast track their imigration process once we leave the EU. Virtually the same way the majority of other countries operate, nothing to worry about in the long term I would suggest.

Don’t forget it’s relatively easy for those who have worked here for a while and don’t have a criminal record to be granted citizenship if they so wish. I have cousins in Australia and a sister and daughter in Canada who have done just that.