Brexit Wars 3



I should maintain a list of open questions:

  1. why is trying to have an EU army insulting the USA?
  2. what means “control of our borders”? Particularly in light of current border controls, Schengen cooperation etc.


I expect JC has decided when he will support a 2nd referendum…probably on or after 30th March :face_with_raised_eyebrow:


Don’t give up Oily.
There is still just as much chance of #BrexitRef2 as the tweaked May Deal… although I do wonder if when Article 50 is triggered ( a racing cert) that it will allow time for another type of Deal… which will be the ‘soft Brexit’ ie. with a customs arrangement that will then get significant support in Parliament too… and something that the EU would welcome too. Not that I want that… but if I was putting a bet on… it would be for the latter.

  • If the USA are insulted then that’s just an added bonus, isn’t it? When you say USA do you really mean just Hair Trump?
  • ‘Control of our borders’ could just mean ‘controlled immigration’.


Just to be fair @arsanias… was it the idea of a European Force that Trump didn’t like… or was it Macron’s words when he said: "“We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America…” ?
I thought Macron was making a lighthearted quip with the remark but it doesn’t appear to have been taken that way.
I agree with you that you’d have thought Trump would welcome some organised coalition of forces in Europe that he can frequently count on to act as Allies.


Just for the sake of completeness, Italy’s largest bank, UniCredit, reported that net profits more than doubled in the fourth quarter. Net operating profit for last year was 13% higher than the previous year at 6.4bn EUR, the highest level since 2008.


And what has a classical music concert ie. the Proms… got to do with “showing ones Britishness”?

At sporting events… I can understand it… just about… and as long as the flag don’t obscure my view.

If you’re going to ban certain flags from one type of music event then you’d better have some good rules laid down and reasons.


I haven’t given up…although am I detecting a drop in your betting odds for ‘BrexitRef2’?

The general consensus (and Critterman was right) is that Parliament majority doesn’t want a 2nd referendum because it’s a messy process, takes a long time and is bound to be as divisive as before (the same or even bigger ‘alternative facts’). But if Parliament fail to agree what ‘Brexit actually means’ (and they aren’t really getting any closer are they?) then a 2nd Ref may be the only way forward…‘the People’ will have to decide how to proceed.

There is a chance that Politicians may actually find a way through this mess…some sort of Brexit fudge…but equally we could crash out or get an extension (a loft extension or a garden room…no planning permission if it’s under permitted development :face_with_monocle:)


Trump said: “President Macron of France has just suggested that Europe build its own military in order to protect itself from the US, China and Russia. Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of Nato, which the US subsidizes greatly!”

I think it’s more insulting that Trump is lying about “paying its fair share of NATO”

The biggest contributors are (2017):

  1. USA 483 Mio EUR
  2. GER 319 Mio EUR
  3. FRA 232 Mio EUR
  4. GB 215 Mio EUR
  5. ITA 183 Mio EUR

That look pretty much like the USA is paying too little if you put the numbers in relation to GDP.

ok, I know what he really means: the size of the national defense budget, but that is not “a share of NATO”. It’s each nations budget. His words were misleading. You never now if he is just lying or stupid. I mean, he is both, but you never know when which. And then you deal with people who just quote him without switching their brain on.

from where? From The EU, from the Commonwealth, from middle Asia? And what migration is not controlled right now?


Can anyone speak Italian This is hard to translate. But it might show what other countries think about UK politics


JW, I thought Macron made the above remark related to his proposed ‘European’ army (which would really have annoyed the Yanks) but I believe it was really about Cyber Security…and we can all agree that we are all spying on each other, even our Allies.


It could be either, but he (Trump) didn’t make himself more clear even after media and commentators (including the one here on the board) took that comment (being insulted) as referring to building an EU army.

I don’t think Macron meant to defend Europe against the USA. I think he meant that the USA under Trump are not a reliable partner that can be counted on to help when Europe faces a threat.


Yep… you noticed.

However, just to ruin some metaphors, the clock running out is a double-edged sword. It can equally force a large group of MPs to agree on another type of deal and thus get an Article 50 extension.
If that other deal then fails to get through Parliament or fails to be agreed with EU… then would seem to me that we are odds on for #BrexitRef2.
But that’s the only way I can see it happening now… I did think until recently that large groups of MPs would be getting together in back rooms agreeing how to make it happen… but it seems they’ve only been getting p*ssed up in Westminster bars whilst the Tory Plan is to… well do very little.


You would expect to have Händel banned from the proms playlist…


The clown of British politics returns
Farage looking to establish a new party


Yep… if we banned all the European composers and musicians… it would be a lot shorter… but plenty more time for waving flags around.


I think you referred to the ‘last night of the Proms’…which is a very British affair…plenty of Union Jacks from what I’ve seen…I know, I know, they should be banned but ‘unfortunately’ I don’t rule the world.

“…Arron Banks is a true patriot…” [scary stuff…also quite funny in places]

  • Less than 2000 views in 2 years…come on guys & gals, lets try to get him over 2K :face_with_monocle:


So Elgar, Purcell and Vaughn Williams. Guess James McMillian would be excluded because he is Scottish.


Did people notice that in “The King’s Speech” when George VI made his war speech the director chose to illustrate it with Beethovens 7th symphony? I would like to know if their intention was to create a counterpoint by saying to the viewer: “the scene it’s about war against Germany, but look, there is also this piece of culture from Germany”. Somehow creating a contrast. Or did they just think that the gravity of the theme was a good match and there was no suitable british music?

I mean, Purcells frost song could have fitted too.


Arsanias, I’m not saying I know the answer…but it’s possible that Brexit ‘control our borders’ refers to a Leave desire that we have ‘uncontrolled immigration’. One factor in the high numbers of immigration is the ‘freedom of movement’ with the EU. I suppose some people decided that they would ‘help’ the Tories get a control of immigration numbers by stopping ‘free movement’ of people from the EU. Obviously those people don’t realise that as a developed country we need quite high immigration levels…especially in certain industries. But that’s ‘probably’ because nobody explained to them how our economy works.