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Brexit Wars 3

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#6350

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#6351

I’ll spell it out for you so it’s understood, the point your bleating on about is a tiny % that will be affected, but crack on with posting your pointless posts, Frog must love the fact your looking completely stupid on his behalf :grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::grin:…catch you later loser.
The banking sector employs 1.6% of the UK workforce and contributes 7.2% of all UK employment tax receipts. In total, taxes collected from the banking sector accounted for 5.4% of the government’s tax receipts for 2016/17.


#6352

HuwJarse:
They can only ever couch their arguments in project fear terms, the old “you’ll all be so much worse off if we leave” rubbish we hear time and time again.

Have you one single benefit for Brexit that isn’t Decades away or Bull like “take back control”

PREJECT FEAR…
Chancellor Philip Hammond today admitted Britain’s economy is being hit by Brexit as official figures showed growth has slowed to a crawl.


#6353

Whatyou,

I am afraid that it is you that looks like the clueless fool…

Compared with JW, your posts are devoid of factual information.

Low quality stuff!

Frog


#6354

U.K. Sued Over Brexit Deal With Ferry Company Without Boats
The companies that run the Channel tunnel are suing the British government over its award of ferry contracts to handle freight shipments in a no-deal Brexit, just days after one of those contracts, with a startup company that doesn’t own any ships, fell through.


#6355

From City of London Corporation:
“The tax contribution of the UK financial services sector hit a record high total of £75.0bn in the year to 31 March 2018”
“The financial services sector paid 25.1% of UK corporation tax receipts in 2018.”

I don’t know whether the %'s you quoted are correct or not… and it is irrelevant whether they are or not… but the point is that the HMRC will be worse off by what has been estimated to be £5bn p.a. (that is ongoing…).
I note that you don’t dispute the fact this is happening and that the HMRC will have a shortfall… but instead just appear to indicate that it is of minor impact.


#6356

Well the article that @HuwJarse posted was quite interesting. Ultimately, of the 5 points mentiond by the 7 Leave voters talked to… 3 of the reasons were about EU “control” over the UK and 2 were about Immigration.
And that is a pretty fair representation IMHO of why many voted to Leave.


#6357

Yes GDP contracted by 0.4% in December. The really telling figure though is that business investment contracted for the 4th quarter in a row. Here comes reality…the Brexit recession.


#6358

Hah! Well Mr Dawsson, you are wrong. Whereas I strongly agree that years of punitive Tory austerity undoubtedly led to a backlash against the establishment this mood was hijacked by Right Wing extremists embodied (for all to see) in their Leave promoting propaganda. Very few (Daily Telegraph readership) had any notions about EU accountability. As if there is much accountability in our own two party system and the House of Lords?

As for the company I keep, it is a large and diverse collection, as I am a minor public figure - though much more minor than I was two years ago. At that time I was in regular contact with maybe 2000 people one way or another. Since then I have descaled this as part of my withdrawal from doing anything useful for England. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted the right way in 2016.

However, I am still in occasional touch with shop floor people, business people, teachers, Councillors, public officials both high and low, land owners and a couple of MPs.

Now the teachers have mixed views (this shocked me), the public officials and business folk are largely Remainers, the shop floor folks nearly all Leavers, the land owners mostly Leavers and the MPs are just idiots. The common theme amongst the Leaver groups is anti- foreigner and anti - immigration, I can assure you, whether they be rich or poor. A very depressing state of affairs in my book.

Brexit is a vehicle of division, hate and xenophobia which must be challenged and not excused in any way.

IMHO,

SBK


#6359

I will now make a prediction:

Mrs May will travel to Brussels next week to try and renegotiate the Backstop. Then the week after that she will travel to Brussels to try and renegotiate the Backstop. Then the week after that she will travel to Brussels to try and renegotiate the Backstop. Then the week after that she will travel to Brussels to try and renegotiate the Backstop. Then the week after that she will travel to Brussels to try and renegotiate the Backstop. Then the week after that she will travel to Brussels to try and renegotiate the Backstop.

After that I’m not quite sure what she will do but she’ll probably travel to Brussels to try and renegotiate the Backstop.

IMHO,

SBK

P.S. The above begs two questions: is she collecting air miles and are the Europeans sick of paying to feed her yet?


#6360

I find myself agreeing with both you and Jack. The article by Gloria Del Piero posted by Huw was also an interesting reading.

I have no doubt that it is true that many working class people voted leave in protest at the effects of austerity, the price of housing and the disappearance of traditional industries. Equally, I have no doubt that many Leave voters also voted against membership of the EU because they looked at our membership of Europe as a partnership of equals with old enemies and and felt some kind of nostalgia for our imperial past when"Britannia Ruled the Waves". A somewhat nationalist view of the past.

The problem is that when populations feel stressed, they often look for the “other” to blame. This happened in pre-war Germany and it is happening in The Groper’s America. In these circumstances there are always political extremists like The Groper, Al Baghdadi and Farage and Johnson who want to stoke these tensions for political advantage. The “others” make convenient scapegoats for the pain of those who are the victims of political and economic circumstances.

Most of us on these message boards know that austerity, the price of housing and the destruction of much of our industrial base is not the fault of immigrants but rather our political establishment. And so those who voted Leave were not wrong if they thought they were kicking back but pretty much a lot the anger was mis-targeted at the wrong arses, and in the case of about 40% of Leave voters, the arses that were being kicked were migrants and foreign “unelected bureaucrats”. The arses that should have been kicked were Tory arses but, I accept, that arguably they too were among the targets.

This is where the laws of unintended consequences comes in. In the act of kicking arses, the result is that the nation is likely to be poorer as a result. Did Leave voters intend to make themselves poorer? I doubt it. In voting Leave they have also empowered the most reactionary elements on the right wing of the Tory party, including the Thatcherites and the neo-liberals who have done so much to make the UK a land of austerity, food banks, zero hours contract and unaffordable housing where the rich get away with very low levels of taxation on property and wealth… and I speak as one of these who benefits from substantial income from ISA investments which is completely untaxed.

And so I will come to the role of xenophobia and racism in the referendum. Social attitude surveys have researched attitudes in the UK repeatedly. Around a quarter to a third have deeply engrained xenophobic or racist attitudes and there is a likelihood that most of these people voted Leave. Are they ALL dangerous? No, I wouldn’t say they are but maybe 5 to 10% are, those who might be tempted to vote for the far right parties, including UKIP. Most of the others are otherwise decent people. The problem as far as I am concerned is that in their anger they have dumped on the “others” to blame all their ills on, rather than the political forces who really are to blame.

The sad thing is that we shall all be the losers. If we head into a “no deal” Brexit then the economy won’t collapse on Day One. It will be a slow process of economic decline. We are already seeing a seeing, as JW reminds us, a steady migration of parts of our financial services sector. It takes longer to shift manufacturing plants but we are already seeing the beginnings of this with freezes on further investment. In 10 to 15 years it is likely that much of our car manufacturing and pharmacueticals will have moved to Europe.

So yes, I am angry that maybe a very small percentage of xenophobic and racist voters (the thickest ones) produced the narrow majority for Leave but I am much more angry about the way our extreme right and to a lesser extent the left have weaponised these attitudes in a very knowing and cynical fashion in pursuit of their own ideological ends.

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#6361

Also sort of ignores what funding companies receive from banks, that in turn helps their companies grow and thus create more tax income.

The trickle down effect…


#6362

On housing and the social problems it has caused, consider that tenants forced into the private rented sector are now spending on average 52% of their income on rent compared with 7% in 1981. Thanks to the Tories’ right-to-buy scheme, the stock of council properties has fallen from 5 million in the early 80s to 1.7 million today. Not the fault of the EU methinks.

Cheers,

Frog ina tree


#6363

and of course all the Brexit/Tory Funders eg Banks Ashcroft Odey Hargreaves Dacre interested in one thing Keeping Tax havens so they can pay tax in Bermuda Belize Cayman etc etc


#6364

From an article by Mike Carter in today’s Guardian:

Brexit will deliver against none of the dissatisfactions of Leave voters “as it is drven by the right, it is the final part of the race to the bottom that statrted 40 years ago. There are no easy answers, but until our politicians begin to acknowledge taht the glabalised neoliberal economic model is a disaster for human beings and the planet we inhabit, we will remain angry and scared and vulnerable to dog whistles. And maybe that is the point”

Frog in a tree


#6365

From Andrew Neil (not exactly a remainer…)
The worst part of the poor Q4 growth figures is that biz investment fell by 3.7% — the steepest fall since 2010 and follows previous 2018 falls. In my judgment there can be no question prolonged and continuing uncertainty of Brexit process hitting private investment (bigly).


#6366

FIAT - hi

Whereas you EU 'groupies are so prejudiced in favour of the EU you can see nothing wrong with it.
James Crisp, brussels correspondent Daily Telegraph
11 FEBRUARY 2019 • 5:02PM
Eurosceptic parties could paralyse Brussels, report warns, with big gains expected at May election

Matteo Salvini of Italy’s League, Marine Le Pen, leader of France’s National Rally, and Viktor Orban of Hungary’s Fidesz. Populist parties are predicted to make big gains in Europe

Eurosceptic parties are on course to take a third of seats in May’s European Parliament elections and could form alliances to destroy the EU from within, new research has claimed.

Anti-establishment parties from across the EU could band together to block or curb EU legislation if they win 33 percent of the 751 seats, the European Council on Foreign Relations think tank warned in a report published on Monday.

The surge for anti-EU and anti-globalist parties could wreak havoc with the bloc’s foreign and trade policy, as well as paralyse migration policy and efforts to prevent an illiberal drift in some EU countries.

The parties could even frustrate the appointment of the new European Commission

There was I thinking that one only read bad news in the press! Maybe the EU is about to get a large dose of insecurity. Will go down well with the recession in the EU. Maybe both will happen at the same time!
ATB
JAR


#6367

I can see you are a sympathiser with " Matteo Salvini of Italy’s League, Marine Le Pen, leader of France’s National Rally, and Viktor Orban of Hungary’s Fidesz."

Cheers,

Frog


#6368

Not true. Many things are wrong. It’s just that without it it’s even worse. When my roof is leaking, sleeping on the street is not quite a solution.


#6369

FIAT - hi

No I’m not … but more than happy to see them ‘shaft’ the EU!
What was that saying?? My enemy’s enemy is my friend !
JAR