JAR, who said that Remainers want the EU to stay the same…we ‘probably’ all know that the EU isn’t perfect and can be improved…we also believe that despite some negatives the EU is a far better place to be a part of…the pros outweigh the cons.
oilo - good morning
She won’t ‘step down’ she will be forced out by the Tories (it’s been proved what many of us knew from years ago - she’s useless). I sum her up in 9 words:
No vision, no plan, no leadership and no future.
Then, perhaps, we get somebody who can negotiate properly.
You are exhibiting symptoms of Brexiter delusion. You Brexiters have never appreciated the weakness of our hand as compared with a more powerful group which is determined to protect the integrity of the European Union. Thinking like your’s got us into this mess in the first place.
Frog in a tree
As oppose to the Remain Rabble keep on chipping away until they achieve their objective. Do you have any self awareness?
Only 1,269,501 more people voted to Leave than to Remain. No serious mathematician would ever consider that any kind of “majority” or that democracy was in play then
That’s politics Trisco!
FIAT - good morning
As you’ve started using the above pejorative word to describe Brexiteers, I assume it’s now OK to resume calling anyone wishing to remain in the EU as ‘Remainiacs’
The last few days has been like one of those mazes and every avenue you go down leads to a dead end. Everyone has been looking at the various option and you find some are saying the problem is the leadership, some saying we need a General Election, some an extension of A50, some saying put it back to the people, some saying lets crash out without a deal. Whatever scenario, you hit a problem with every issue.
The other thing is people see absolutely everything through the tinted spectacles of what they voted for. So Remainers will say “Oh, the only way out of this is a second referendum” and the Leavers say “the only way out of this is to leave without a deal. Sod the EU”
And that’s the problem. No one wants to compromise. And those in the middle can’t agree on anything anyway!
I don’t disagree with what you say. The fundamental problem we face is that “the will of the people” was not strongly expressed after the multiply flawed referendum process. The majority, such as it was, was very narrow and the basis on which it was gained was on very confused and contradictory arguments. In all likliehood the majority has now passed away as indicated by polling data. “Leave” was only defined by that single word and even those leading the Leave campaign had only the fuzziest notions of what Leave would look like and whether it meant crashing out on WTO terms or some kind of unicorn deal with the EU. The consequence is that Brexitears have tried to grab the wheel to steer Brexit in a direction which suits their libertarian inclinations. So, not surprising that the political centerists would resist.
Plenty more debate to come methinks.
Frog in a tree
There is still the real danger of a no deal, simply as this is the default route if nothing else is agreed. I think some Brexiters would like that to happen. They have that vision of destroying everything and rebuilding on the ashes.
And then there are those flag waving dumbasses. I watched BBC live yesterday. There was that Tory guy who was interviewed in the lobby. He said the UK has a seat in the security council, nuclear weapons and the Commonwealth. That is why it is a world power and will be much better off without the EU. Leaving the EU will only cause a small bump and there are billions to be saved.
Every country has such idiots in the parliament, but usually sent by some negligible far right comedy troop.
I’m not convinced that would be the case. Of the 70+ UK MEPs I doubt if the proportion of anti-EU MEPs would go up.
TM is ‘safe’ until December from a Tory vote of no confidence. The ERG really shot their bolt in that respect.
You’ve described the Brexit dilemma quite perfectly…Nobody wants to compromise…or they want the ‘other side’ to do the compromising.
Ideally MP’s in Parliament would be able to reach a Brexit compromise for the good of the country. If they aren’t capable then give it back to the people to decide, give them the different options and let ‘the people’ decide their future.
I’m not sure how the 16,141,241 people who voted to Remain could get any compromise on what was a binary choice.
One (of the many) sensible things to do would have been to have an additional Consultation for the whole of the UK (call it a Referendum if you wish but I suggest Consultation would be better) that then asks far more detailed questions on what EU institutions people want to be part of and which they don’t.
ie. Do you want to be part of the Customs Union still?
Do you want access to a new, negotiated customs arrangement?
Do you want access to any aspects of the Single Market? Which?
ie. Totally remove any option for redoing the Referendum but discuss with “the People” now precisely what form of Brexit they actually wanted… and then we’d have real stats to work with.
As it is… we just get Far Right groups telling everyone else why they voted to Leave the EU without anyone forensically establishing what the People really wanted/want.
All too late now maybe… but just shows how stupid and inept our Politicians and also most people are.
oilo - hi
Unless the Brexiteer Tories make any change of their votes for the current plan conditional on her going early!
Brexit Wars continue as per usual.
Will be going for many years.
The Washington Post has it right:
As Martin Sandbu writes in the Political Quarterly, Brexit has always been “a solution in search of a problem.” To me, the best evidence of this is that Britain’s Euroskeptics generally want to leave the E.U. because they see it as a statist juggernaut. In virtually every other member country, Euroskeptics dislike the E.U. because they see it as a free-market juggernaut. So either all of those other countries have it backward, or Britain’s Conservatives have gone nuts.
Europe would also lose a lot with Brexit. Britain has a large and vibrant economy. But more important, Britain has been a crucial voice in the community for free markets, openness, efficiency and an outward-looking foreign policy.
The world order as we know it was built over two centuries, during the reigns of two liberal, Anglo superpowers — Britain and then the United States. Brexit would mark the end of Britain’s role as a great power, and I wonder whether it would also mark the day that the West, as a political and strategic entity, begins to crumble.
…and that’s why Russia funds Brexiteers.
That, you see, is what the past three years of drama, melodrama and, all too often, dark comedy known as Brexit have really been about. The simple story is that its supporters have promised impossible things — namely, that the European Union would let Britain opt out of the bloc’s free movement of people while still letting it opt in to the group’s free movement of goods — that they’ve merely tried to pretend are not.
Everybody can see that. Sometimes you have to look at something from outside to see clear.
Its PROUST and the title of his magnum opus is better translated as “In search of lost time”.
As if you have ever read more than the fly jacket.
It perplexes me why you have so much hatred for the European Union and desire so strongly for it to “fail” at the hands of assorted fascists?
Ah well, now for a nice cup of tea and some Madeleine cake…
I’m sure that many Brexiteers must be feeling happy after the events of today.
Likewise, Fraser Anning, an Oz senator, has issued a statement today describing the terror attacks as “vigilantism” and claiming that Muslim immigration was to blame for the atrocity.
Does anyone still dispute the link between Muslim immigration and violence? — Senator Fraser Anning (@fraser_anning) March 15, 2019
“I am utterly opposed to any form of violence within out community, and I totally condemn the actions of the gunman…”
“However, whilst this kind of violent vigilantism can never be justified, what it highlights is the growing fear within our community, both in Australia and New Zealand, of the increasing Muslim presence.”
We all know why you voted for Brexit.
Completely inappropriate @J_Westlock.
This is an investment board where Brexit is discussed and debated, while you are using it to use a huge tragedy to point score.
There may well be some people around the world who have nodded to Fraser Anning, but I very much doubt anyone on here is in agreement. So why post it on here?
Unless, once again, its another afternoon on the old Sherry.