Brexit Wars 3



I think that what Westlette is saying is that the right wing nationalist narrative is becoming more current across the world. You have The Groper in the US, Brexit, AFD and Orban and others. All this creates a political discourse which nutters like today’s murderer will use to vindicate their even more extreme beliefs. In my view JW’s arguments are reasonable.

Frog in a tree


Pre-recession signals lurk in UK jobs data - research

LONDON (Reuters) - Beneath the headline figures showing a strong British labour market, the ebb and flow of jobs and businesses being created and destroyed is showing a pattern associated with the onset of recession, research suggested on Monday.

Employers in Britain created almost 400,000 jobs last year, pushing the jobs rate to a new record high - a bright spot in a slowing economy weighed down by Brexit worries and weakening global trade.

But academics at the Enterprise Research Centre, a research network, said there were some unpromising signals when looking at the jobs data split between new and existing firms.

Start-up businesses contributed roughly 1 million jobs in 2018, cancelling out a net 613,000 drop in employment across established companies.

This looks unlikely to be sustained, with the rates of business “births” and “deaths” now converging - often a poor omen for the economy, particularly if the death rate overtakes the birth rate not to mention this governments continued attacks on the self-employed - Eadwig]

Mark Hart, professor of entrepreneurship at Aston Business School, said the official data showing record employment could lull policymakers into a false sense of security.

“Even if our headline employment figures are being propped up by start-ups creating new jobs, we are already witnessing a severe slowdown in hiring by the established firms that are vital to the health of our economy,” Hart said.

Recent short-term business surveys have pointed to a fall in employment, although most attribute this to uncertainty ahead of Brexit.


I have to agree. I warned about it before Brexit and nothing I have seen since has made me change my mind that voting Brexit would be a green light to a small, but dangerous, percentage of the population who should never be encouraged to air their hatreds, let alone act out on them.


Underlying the jobs data is the fact that much of the growth has been in part time non-permanent low paid employment or pretend self employment. Cuts in benefits are forcing people into work where the pay levels are insufficient to support family life. No jobs miracle at all in my view.



I think a good number of British are having a Rememberance of Things Past.


Fiat, Australia have their issues with immigration and the stance of the Aussie government to immigrants will have more of an influence on this mad man than Brexit IMO.

There is a rise in far right nationalism across the Western world…it’s a sign of the times and should be resisted by right minded people. There will always be mentally unstable people who distort an idealogy (whether nationalism or religion) to justify their evil.

If I go on a march for a cause (Veganism say…unlikely I know but not impossible :wink:) and there are 500,000 peaceful protestors but at the end of the day a few troublemakers start attacking the police, causing a riot…are all 500,000 vegans to blame for a few ‘nutters’?

I read JW’s posts today and he was suggesting (IMO) that Brexiteers/Leavers who post on here in some way condone the NZ atrocity. Language such as that linking an entire group of people to ultra radical views isn’t going to unite the country. We need to try to find common ground, not build walls between ourselves.

JW is just throwing stones, trying to break windows…not being constructive at all (IMO).


In that case the average salary would be falling, what is the figure and what is the trend?


Averages won’t be a reliable guide since the skilled and higher paid are more likely to benefit from pay uplifts than the casualised ununionised poorly paid.


Frog in a tree


I often wonder how on earth did Mogg manage to convince white van drivers from Oldham that he’s on their side. Mental when you think about it.

But then I don’t think he has to, smug tw@ts who slag off working class people from run-down towns do most of his work for him.


As the great Anthony Scaramucci said recently in an interview’

‘I tell my elitist friends, you think your that smart? The kids in my neighbourhood are as smart as you. Their dad’s just weren’t doctors or wall wall street bankers who provided them with the opportunities you had’ .

Smart bloke , Anothony. Maybe Mogg didn’t fool the white van driver at all. They were just smart enough to agree.


I agree but rise in Far Right helped by groups eg Steve Bannon, Brietbart linked with social media manipulation used propaganda that encourage and incite racists for political gain.
Brexit and Trump being examples…

It does not mean the normal LEAVE voters is like that, most voted because of what they were told by campaigns, read online or in media…
My anger is towards self serving politicians…
Boris making Burka jokes. Farages Poster, Headlines like 1 in 5 BRITONS WILL BE ETHNICS were no accident and carefully targeted.


Maybe the source of far right rise are the idiots who preceded them in the middle or left? Something caused the rise and wasn’t themselves


What a fantastic post JD. It’s refreshing to read a bit of reasoning rather than project fear hyperbole and smears of being uneducated and xenophobic.

You’ll read reports that online abuse, or racist abuse on twitter, is on the rise. Online hate crimes are on the rise. Completely ignoring the fact that social media didn’t exist as short as 15 years ago. Twitter only launched in 2006.

Less than 10 years ago there were less than a billion social media users. This year it’s expected to rise to 2.77bn!

It’s a bit like when someone calls themselves an “anti fascist” as though it’s some kind of achievement in life. Being anti fascist or anti terrorist is a default position, not some brave stance.


How did MOGG convince the white van driver? you must know his campaign blamed someone other than the Rich Tories for all the guys problems





Personally i didn’t vote. Unfortunately I believed the political clowns that said markets would tank and recession wrath upon us if leave vote won.

Thank God for stop losses or I’d have lost billions by now given the vote was followed by one of tbe strongest bull runs around. Even the same month as the vote closed super bullish.


No one has exposed me to those papers, more than you. Honestly, you’re single handedly contributing to their profits by constantly clicking and sharing them.


you wondered how Mogg convinced White van man. I just post what was out there dont think it contributes to profits I never buy them just keep them on file.
They often get a reaction wonder why?



Works both ways though. Here were the for claims prior to the vote. Scaring the other side of the coin to vote remain.

‘David Cameron has warned that leaving the EU would be the “self-destruct option” for Britain, as the Treasury published an analysis warning that Brexit would plunge the country into a year-long recession and cost as many as 820,000 jobs.’

Post vote followed by record low unemployment and rampaging markets. No side is innocent of ridiculous claims. So probably suffice to say, leave lied better (but not more often) than remain.

All sides made great headlines.


conversation was about RW rhetoric being used by LEAVE.

But you are right about both sides although LEAVE was found guilty of cheating which is why we all deserve another referendum NOW we know all the facts.
This would be fair for LEAVE voters who voted to “take back control” and with MAYS deal they dont get that, have to follow rules w/o any say…

AND headlines lies like this on Newstands countrywide are very inciteful


Yes id agree with another vote. I get the argument that it is not great for democracy too.

However I do think the leave vote would ram a full exit down the govs throat , just for the cheek of calling it again.

Probably a case of soft brexit better for remain than a 2nd vote. As the hard exit would have to be on the table. And I think they’d win it.