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Brexit Wars 3

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lse:lloy
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#8267

To be fair the referndum would have 3 options LEAVE NO DEAL, MAYS DEAL, REMAIN (1st 2nd choice)

I would be amazed if REMAIN did not win but IF any other option won I could support it…


#8268

I’d have agreed with you first time around. I wont underestimate the leave vote power if a second vote comes.

Imagine the power just calling the vote, it would give leave campaigners… .Imagine the new headlines haha


#8269

Like the old war poster but not ‘your country needs you’

Maybe something Like, ‘your country wants you out’ lol

I can only imagine the play on it.


#8270

IF the LEAVE campaigners would have such power in a second vote… Why do they fight it tooth and nail with the same stupid arguments over and over. even the ERG who say MAYS deal is the "worst in history ??
THEY KNOW THEY Would LOSE


#8271

It’s one way to look at it. But isn’t May a remainer at heart, and doesnt want a second vote. Wants a soft brexit. Fears the result?


#8272

mays trying to keep the Tories together.
Its the ERG UKIP etc who hate MAYS deal but know they would lose another vote


#8273

You could be right. I’m not on the pulse.

But Lets look at it this way. If a second vote comes, would you place £10,000 with the bookies on the result?

I wouldnt, either way. Not that I’m not a gambler. I must be. I buy shares. But at least we can use some form of probability there. I wouldnt be so sure on the 2nd ref outcome

Not in hard cash terms anyway


#8274

Trisco,

Thanks. Very valid points. As you & most here clearly appreciate, it’s a complex problem. Also, times have thankfully changed in many ways. When I was a lad in late 70s & 80s the humour of popular comics like Bernard Manning was seen as normal. Also, racist parlance was common on the streets with few batting an eyelid. It was culturally acceptable, however unpleasant.

Many of those like me never had time for nor indulged in any of that garbage. But we still heard it often enough around us. A lot of that language would now, quite rightly, be seen as racially offensive & liable to be prosecuted. That doesn’t mean that racism in UK has increased since the 70s & 80s, but it’s certainly far better policed.

But part of the equation here even goes beyond far-right propaganda, or any kind of propaganda, though that may play a secondary role.

When an extreme, self-proclaimed fundamentalist Islamist slaughters innocent civilians, as has often occurred in recent times, he’s often dismissed as a lone Wolf nutter. No-one in authority nor the popular media tends to look at apportioning blame to any particular teaching or dogma, beyond the murderer’s own twisted logic. But lone Wolf nutters are never going to be unique to any one side.

This guy may, or may not, have perpetrated this outrage even if he’d never visited far-right websites. The chances are that he’s sufficiently mentally unhinged to have believed he was merely evening things up after a spate of self-proclaimed Islamist terror attacks.

That doesn’t of course make this mass murder of Muslims at prayer any less terrible, as it wouldn’t be regardless of whether it was against those identifying themselves as Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, Yazidis or whatever other faith. But like many others, I’m not one to pass comment on every such outrage that happens as, sadly, there’s no shortage of them all over the world. - Regards. Typo.


#8275

No. Not unless they have been a part of the incitement
of the attacker or took part in a campaign deliberately with the aim of targeting a section of the community.

The reason that most Brexiteers resort to vague & nonsense reasons why they voted to Leave such as:

  • taking back control
  • EU Elite
  • EU superstate
  • EU write all our laws
    … is because the real reason was Immigration and that they don’t want foreigners esp. dark skinned ones in what they perceive as their country.
    They can’t bring themselves to say it but that’s what it is.
    Which is also why the carefully created Posters and Campaign material of the Leave Campaign focussed on creating a fear of dark skinned, Muslim hordes queuing up to enter the UK.
    Many were all too eager to follow that mantra and vote with their baser instincts… there’s no excuse for it other than simple racism or at best xenophobia.

It was entirely predictable and foreseen at the time that such a campaign would incite such attacks… now they are happening.
The mass muderer was in Europe 2 years ago… he is well aware of issues in Europe regarding immigrants and also the Brexit Campaign as his Far Right sites have ample references to.

I’m not interested in finding common ground… or being constructive.
I’m just calling things as I see them.
I realise that many don’t like to hear the truth however.


#8276

Who was it that said… .‘one army can’t rise without the opposite forming’

So yes. Was pretty much on the cards. Whether it’s nutters or whatever that forms it isn’t the point. The opposite always forms.


#8277

That’s right @J_Westlock, identity politics will only bring people together. Before labelling them, allotting each demographic privilege points, and finally segregating them. That’s the spirit mate. :+1:t6::+1:t6:


#8278

BfD, but we haven’t actually left yet! We won’t have ‘Brexited’ until 29th March…not even then ‘probably’. So you’re a little premature in saying that all of the forecasts were incorrect.


#8279

I don’t pass comments on all such events either.
I too couldn’t give a sh@t about any religion; they are all fairy tales.
Doesn’t stop me pointing things out that are connected however.

Here’s another connection:


#8280

@oilovlam

Thats true.

But he didn’t suggest the gains that came thereafter either. Both him and Osborne were very negative on the short to medium term outlook from 2016 if leave won.

So what we can ascertain prior to the actual date is that they got the medium term outlook wrong. Which makes his 820,000 number a less credible headline.

But the bottom line is this. Whether he turns out to be right or wrong will only be coincidental. Central banks can hardly get a month right. Never mind predict three years down the road.

Pretty much the same as us in stocks. You might buy based on a fundamental today…

But if still growing in three years years time? It’s not the fundamentals that got us in, that gets us there.


#8281

JW, so when someone gives you a reason for something you ignore it and create your own hypothesis…based on your own prejudices…that makes perfect sense.

Perhaps they are worried about the ‘united states of Europe’, and the creeping control of the EU on domestic life (that working time directive was a bummer) or perhaps it was a myriad of issues…including - just to make you happy- including immigration (albeit a tiny consideration). Who gives a flying Bojo?? Perhaps we just have to realise that some people aren’t happy with the state of the UK…full stop. Perhaps we cannot pigeon hole all Leave voters into an anti-migration, anti foreigner slot. Perhaps we are the narrow minded people who want to cast all Leavers as ‘bad’ people.

Perhaps they are just decent folk who have been misled by slick advertising into selecting that shiny new vacuum cleaner (from Singapore)…that promises the earth but sucks (or doesn’t as the case may be)

Do you know JW, I think I know your ‘problem’. You are confused between the people who created all the ‘nasty’ advertising (the ad agencies , VoteLeave, BeLeave,…& the Russkies) and the innocent recipients of those adverts. You need to be condemning Steve ‘scum’ Bannon and Cambridge Analytica instead of their ‘innocent’ victims


#8282

It’s like the market rocked when terrorism was fairly fresh of the jihad type. Markets rocked each time. But then became immune. Hardly notices a bad moment these days.

Brexit same. It will drag on so long, the markets will immune itself and probably not even care the day it happens, if it does.

2008 was a far bigger disaster than the uk leaving the EU imo. And look at the markets soon after that.

In fact surely since the 1900’s, many things far worse occurred than brexit. It’s just a drama to create volatility for now. Not much more. And any recession coming will be down to a 2008 payback for a BS paper bull, not brexit.

‘The reason we had a record bull run, is simply because nobody can afford a recession’


#8283

Damned right…at last you talk some sense…I don’t want to eat only vegetables for the rest of my life…after all you are ‘probably’ an example of ‘you are what you eat’ :wink:


#8284

Mae West??

“You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.”


#8285

Haha. Very good.


#8286

I don’t know what that actually tells us.

Isn’t it mostly about risk…we have a system that is working fairly well…you’re doing Ok, a lot of companies are doing ‘OK’…but some ‘politician’ (sorry about the swearword) has ‘promised’ that things will be even better if we tear up the rule book and take a ‘risk’…are you a gambler, do you like to live on the edge, can you make a quick buck in a volatile market…if yes, then vote for Brexit…although I’m not sure what Brexit actually means…potatoe salad I think.