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Brexit Wars 3

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#19132

pete - hi

No it ain’t m8
There is no way I’m going to become a Remainer and no way you (or most others on this board), will accept any arguments for leaving
Its an ‘echo chamber’ - no more, no less (defn: ‘an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered)’.
JAR


#19133

I was there… the 11% Porters were well worth it.


#19134

In this article, they say they aren’t “planning” on a cull. However, your posted article absolutely confirms the issue:

Mr Ferguson said the UFU has been in contact with politicians, both locally and in Westminster, “to make our case that a no-deal Brexit would be disastrous for farmers”.

"If milk had to face a tariff, the only way that milk would go across the border would be if the government stepped up and paid a tariff, and that’s assuming the Republic of Ireland would accept the milk.
“We are asking for advice on how to handle this.”


#19135

Which argument? I cannot remember you mentioned one.


#19136

arsanias - good morning

I’m not responsible for your lack of memory
JAR


#19137

Well seeing as the IARC Working Group concluded that eating processed meat causes colorectal cancer, the UN and IPCC have confirmed that the meat industry is driving climate change… and there’s slowly more realisation of the disgusting treatment of animals in the farming industry as education levels increase… hopefully more will switch to a plant based diet.


#19138

My memory tells me that you end every attempt of a discussion with a sniffy one-lined “…m8”

There is this barrier built up behind the brexit slogans like “take back control”. That’s where every discussion ends, although that’s were it should start. What control? What gets better. Why is it better to leave a customs union that has many trade deals in place and try to make your own? How dies it help limiting immigration? Which immigration should be limited? and so on, but there is simply nothing.

And then of course my conclusion is that you people deny a discussion because you have no argument.

Brexit is a project of lightweights.


#19139

That’s a load of bollocks John.
Recently someone came up with one advantage of leaving EU: bespoke/tailored FTAs designed specifically for UK.
That’s perfectly acceptable as an advantage.

Problem is that all the time issues and problems and major disadvantages are being realised of leaving the EU esp. with a No Deal.
The reason you can’t list any reasons for leaving is that you know they are total tripe and that whenever you try you are exposed and quickly realise you are lying to yourself.


#19140

Absolutely correct @arsanias.

We all know the real reasons behind Brexit… they are either too thick or simply too embarrassed to say it though.


#19141

arsanias - good afternoon

OK
JAR
PS about the shortest one-liner I could think of m8.


#19142

JW - good afternoon

OK
JAR


#19143

admittedly PPL are biased buts its still a discussion group. I am open to change my mind If my kids n Gkids will be better off.
Have been asking for months for any real example of benefits of Leaving and of example’s of the Opportunities we are supposed to have not had one from any Brexiter yet…

If you have made some proper arguments eg NOT (will of people) (we voted for) because we all know it was a fraud…

I would love to hear them again…


#19144

becoming a troll?


#19145

We are still here fighting a rearguard action. Even if I was on a sun lounger on the Riviera I’d still be pounding Brexiteers here and elsewhere.

I’m still here because God hates me. There was a goldilocks period in early 2016 when I was planning my escape but then disaster struck in June. Its not only about money though the FX represents a big hit. I’ve got a couple of dependants one of which has a pre-existing health issue which makes private health insurance difficult, animals that are happy where they are and a few other nagging business responsibilities.

Its OK if you are solitary like fynne and just an outcast of the islands with only the ambition to get a sun tan and drink ouzo until you die. The main thing now is to see which way the Brexit cards are going to fall, if ever the uncertainty ends.

At the very worst my plan next year would be to buy an apartment in Nice and rotate there and back every 3 months to avoid bureaucracy. In between I’d let the Remainers here use it free of charge.

IMHO,

SBK


#19146

Perhaps it would help your finances if you opened a branch of the SBK poundstore (eurostore?) on the Promenade des Anglais?

Cheers,

Frog


#19147

Frog,

Both cattle and sheep are ruminants, ie. they digest herbage and therefore produce methane. Sheep are not “worse”, it just that there are more of them in the world (20+ Million in the UK).

Most cattle in the USA are kept indoors and fed only on maize, to produce marbled meat. This is a cruel system. In many parts of the world sheep and goats are the only way to garner food from poor (often mountainous terrain). They have had a symbiotic relationship with these ovines for thousands of years. And hitherto it has been the same in the UK: sheep got protection from predators and supplementary fed during the winter, in exchange for wool and the meat of their offspring. Grazing animals can have really important environmental benefits in maintaining some wildlife rich landscapes. Its all complex and a question of balance. The nub is: intensive farming bad, extensive farming better.

The choice you have if you are concerned about climate change is “meat or no meat” and eat only a plant based diet. Its easily doable. That is the trend of consumption now in the West, for good or ill, not just because of the climate issue but one of personal health and aversion to animal cruelty and cost.

As I have said before I am from a farming background and understand all sides of these issues. My take on them these days is to tread lightly on the Earth in contrast to my past.

My favoured solution to all these problems is for townies who do not know where cheese comes from (!) is for them to starve themselves to death.

IMHO,

SBK

P.S. to produce most cheeses calves have to be killed (milk + rennet. Google).


#19148

Buns,

The chart that Oili showed us (above), assuming it is accurate, does indicate that the production of lamb (and presumably mutton) creates more CO2 equivalent (includes other warming gasses such as methane) per kilo of meat produced. This must be because they fart and burp more or that there is proportionately more non-meat waste.

Frog


#19149

Hi FIAT

I do not know enough Italians to be able to give a view I would be confident in but the impression I get is that it seems to be the younger ones that dislike Salvini and he has more support from the older people.

Perhaps in part due to his hard line immigration policy and promises of tax cuts ? So yes, somewhat similar to the UK in a way.

Generally he does seem to be regarded as having not followed through with his election promises.
Hardly unusual for a politician

ATB

soi


#19150

Whatever. I hadn’t bothered to read the article before I pontificated, however it only deals with the USA production breeds and methods. More primitive breeds of sheep will be "more ruminant efficient than modern breeds, ditto cattle. Feeding crops to US cattle is a double whammy environmentally due to the intensiveness of growing such feed + transportation. Another factor into the mix is how long animals are allowed to live. Typically a long time in the developing world and a short one in the West. In the case of pigs and chickens their lifespan is usually counted in weeks. Individually they don’t get much chance to produce gases but there is a lot more of them concentrated in intensive systems. In poor parts of the world animals are eaten near where they are reared and not transported. The oily graph is a crude measure of the issue.

The bottom line is that as a biomass sheep hugely outweighs that of cattle in the world. From the agricultural point of view what, for example, would outback farmers in Australia do with their land without sheep?

In all animal production, in the developed world and the undeveloped one there is rarely any waste of any kind at the end of rearing. Everything is utilized: meat, wool, hides, bonemeal, etc. Where the waste comes in is that perpetrated by the consumer: 30% of food bought in the West is thrown away. That is the issue that needs to be tackled first.

Anything that is unpalatable in animal production ends up in cat and dog food. I did try to persuade my cat to go veggie but he was just not interested.

IMHO,

SBK


#19151

Does anyone know any more about this He was on suicide watch? did he just find a rope lying around??

Jeffrey Epstein, the disgraced millionaire who was facing federal sex trafficking charges, died by suicide Friday night in his Lower Manhattan jail cell, three law enforcement officials told ABC News.