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Brexit Wars 3

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lse:lloy
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#19252

Why won’t the EU lift a finger to stop us pulling the trigger on the gun we hold to our head? Why won’t the EU lift a finger to stop us shooting ourselves in the foot? Why won’t the EU save us from the irrational actions that we are taking?


#19253

I posted this…

Leuven University study published last week says a no-deal Brexit will lead to 1.2 million job losses across Europe, including over half a million in the UK

you posted. a made up biased long long essay.


#19254

question about the BACKSTOP.

I think it’s in place til we implement the technical solution for the Irish border the Tories said we had.

So what’s the problem unless the Tories were lying again


#19255

Lloyds down from 66p to 48.74, hey only 26%. Upwards and onwards we march off the cliff edge.


#19256

Huw… you are a prat.

Your post is full of assumptions… not just a couple.
As for “everything you say”… there’s hardly anything in your post that I’ve actually said and it’s just a meaningless rant.


#19257

You are still throwing the same smoke grenade. Even if that you write is true, you miss to explain how that supports Brexit, why it is better to leave and why it’s worth suffering the undisputable damage.

And no, eastern Europe was not “sold an illusion”. They are not Brexiteers. They knew where they were and what they could expect and they got a 100% increase in GDP since joining. How much will the UKs GDP increase? ZERO. It will go down. Not even your dumbass PM doubts that.

The UK will soon be knocking on the door and ask for any kind of FTA and then everything is back on the table. WTO terms will not be good enough to secure trade - if at all possible against the opposition of other WTO members. Without FTAs in place, the UK will not be a fun place to be. “no deal” means GBP at 0,90 EUR, negative GDP growth, a tax shortfall. decline of much needed immigration including that those “low tech, low wage, low skills” people from Eastern Europe. …and the there’s still Scotland and NI. Future governments will have a lot to explain, particularly to younger people.


#19258

We’ll see who’s right in time. What you definitely did say was that we could rejoin easily. Only a fool would believe that.


#19259

Yes we will see… and I guarantee that if the UK does leave the EU that over the coming years the mood in the UK will quickly change as the remainder of the still clinging on to life Brexiteers realise they have been shortchanged and lied to.

As for “Only a fool would believe that“… that’s just your subjective view and there you expose one of your fears… ‘cos reality is that whatever is done politically can always be undone.


#19260

Yes it can be undone, but at a price. One I guarantee we won’t be willing to pay.


#19261

The rebate will be gone, anything else will be just like any other member. No obligation to join the Euro or whatever price you may have in mind.


#19262

more brexit bonus.


#19263

Yes, most likely the rebate would be gone but it is worth about £4bn pa… the UK is now losing an estimated £5bn pa in Corp tax lost from global financial companies now using EU state legal entities alone… and that is just one of the things Brexit has caused thus far.
The “rebate” isn’t something that will be an important factor in the future.


#19264

Anyone see the telegraph opinion poll…

just seems the Brexit campaign are throwing everything they can at this and its more lies for the most part… seems like panic

complaint to the regulator, IPSO:

I would like to make a complaint about a story produced by the Telegraph in print and online.

The online version is at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/12/boris-johnson-has-publics-support-shut-parliament-get-brexit/ and states, “The ComRes survey for The Telegraph found that 54 per cent of British adults think Parliament should be prorogued to prevent MPs stopping a no-deal Brexit.”

However, the data provided by ComRes itself is different. The data has been published at https://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/The-Telegraph_August-2019-Tables.pdf – Table 53.
This data shows two important differences from what the Telegraph reported:
(1) Telegraph: “54% of British adults…”, ComRes data: 44% (a minority rather than a majority, and therefore both an error and more than a trivial error),
(2) Telegraph: “think Parliament should be prorogued”, ComRes wording: “Boris needs to deliver Brexit by any means, including suspending parliament if necessary” – this is a very different wording, including both the framing of the point (making the question about delivering Brexit primarily) and also the use of “if necessary” is not the same as saying something “should” happen
Therefore this story falls foul of the requirement in the Editor’s Code: “The Press must take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted information” (1(i), Accuracy). Note in particular that the Code refers both to inaccurate and to misleading information and therefore the point in (2) above about giving a distorted impression of what the poll question really asked is covered by this clause as well as the point in (1) above which is a straight forward case of inaccurate information.
It is worth noting also that the Telegraph pieces, both online and in print, were substantive, lengthy pieces given high prominence (front-page stories in both print and online). They both, therefore, had the space to properly explain the data being cited and also should have been subject to carefully editorial processes. It would not be plausible to argue that either a shortage of time or space or an absence of editorial oversight led to this misleading story being published.
In making your ruling, therefore, I hope you will give serious consideration to the prominence given to the story by the Telegraph and therefore the appropriate level of prominence that should be given to correcting it.


#19265

Pete, is this your complaint to IPSO? If so then you should be very proud of yourself, it is a very well argued complaint.

How long before IPSO rule?..if it’s anything longer than a month or two then it’s almost pointless (apart from another addition to the web of lies that has supported Brexit).

They got the 54% figure by ignoring the ‘don’t knows’ (see tables 84, 85 & 86). I have seen this done before & I don’t know if this is acceptable (seems a bit dodgy to me).
[https://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/The-Telegraph_August-2019-Tables.pdf]


#19266

Are you guys paid hacks.?

They should be for the amount of time they spend on here … although I think buns is hoping to get paid by the word ??
Who ever is paying is wasting their money though …

fynne,

Oddly enough I used to get paid by the word by a couple of magazines and journals I used to write for. Interestingly, neither of their editors ever changed a word that I wrote and they always published the whole pieces even when I exceeded their word quota.

Of course you would not have appreciated my content as no doubt you never got past page 3 of “The Sun”.

Its hard work composing articles for print so I prefer to idle my time away on the stock market. So just think how lucky you are that you can read my wisdom for free here and perhaps educate yourself?

In fact, I am writing a report on a critically important subject for the country at the moment which may even save lives. This is for a University research department and will then go onto a Westminster committee. I really should be working on it now but such is my laziness and desperation for distraction that I’m reduced to replying to you.

Once that report is done it will be the last thing I do for the benefit of the UK and will turn my talents instead to sabotaging it with my 20 point plan.

IMHO,

SBK


#19267

I guess that the DT readers are happy to be lied to as long as it supports their prejudices. From the examples given the journalist’s interpretation is appallingly skewed to support the Johnson government. I doubt that many had the patience to wade through the masses of data …not even me.

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#19268

All this money which is supposedly going to be thrown at Prisons is a waste. What the country needs is more secure hospitals for the insane. The number of prospective in patients is currently in the millions!

Brexitphenia is rampant. Symptoms include:

Being happy that the pound is at 1.07 and the country is getting poorer.

Content to see prices rises and shortages of consumer goods.

Phlegmatic about other people losing their jobs.

Sanguine about being imprisoned on a small cold island.

Not being worried by being led by the nose by liars and fools.

Phobic about foreign people.

Live a fantasy life, daydreaming about an illusory past which never happened.

Etc.

IMHO,

SBK


#19269

The FTSE100 continues to fall this morning and the outlook appears gloomy with the fall in the Argentina stock market. The hindu nationalist Modi’s interference with Kashmir’s political autonomy is also a factor. We appear to be whipping up a storm with trade wars, brexit and now the trouble in latin America.

There is some speculation that China and Iran may turn The Groper’s bullying against him to deny him any victories ahead of next year’s second term presidential election. It all looks very likely that the world economy could be in for a prolonged period of turmoil.

Personally, I think that the Chinese are right to play hard ball. Apparently The Groper thinks that the Chinese pay the tariffs when in fact it raises the prices of imported goods for Americans. China will need to negotiate at some point but they would be best positioned if it was a different President.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum. There could hardly be a worse time to do Brexit.

Batten down the hatches!

Cheers,

Frog in a tree


#19270

not that clever seen it online but the link below does not work…
To my mind it shows how worried they(brexit supporters) are now with all the lies thats been uncovered to try to fiddle a poll like this and put it on Front page of Torygraph just smells like panic.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/159481/dreadful-opinion-poll-reporting-by-the-daily-telegraph/


#19271

"
Tory Baroness Warsi accuses party of hypocrisy after Islamophobia investigation is confirmed.

The Conservative Party will order an independent inquiry into Islamophobia within its ranks, its chairman has confirmed.

After weeks of uncertainty during which Boris Johnson appeared to backtrack on a pledge to tackle the problem, James Cleverly said an investigation would go ahead.

However the chairman was immediately accused of hypocrisy by one of his predecessors, Baroness Warsi, for saying that the Tories first had to agree on a definition of Islamophobia before the independent inquiry can proceed.

Labour, the Liberal Democrats, and the Conservative Party in Scotland have all adopted the definition proposed by the All Party Parliamentary Group on British Muslims (APPG), but the Conservative Party in England has so far refused.

Lady Warsi said Mr Cleverly’s remarks on a definition were identical to Labour’s initial refusal last year to adopt the internationally-recognised definition of anti-Semitism.
"

source: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-baroness-warsi-accuses-party-of-hypocrisy-after-islamaophobia-investigation-is-confirmed/